Some perspective on "immigration"?

ZHawke,
Are you a citizen of Tennessee? Do you vote in their state elections?

PrintSmith wrote: Can you vote for the representatives of any State or just the State in which you are a citizen Z? You can't vote in the congressional elections in the State of New York because you aren't a citizen of the State of New York and only citizens of the State of New York may vote in the congressional races which decide the representation of the State of New York.

Since you are not a citizen of the State of New York, you cannot be a citizen of all of the States simultaneously, which means you aren't a "national" citizen.

QED

Not QED, P. Show me viable proof of your assertion there is no such thing as U.S. Citizenship.

ramage wrote: ZHawke,
Are you a citizen of Tennessee? Do you vote in their state elections?

I'll ask you to do the same thing I asked of P: show me viable, verifiable proof of the assertion there is no such thing as U.S. Citizenship.

ZHawke wrote:

PrintSmith wrote: Can you vote for the representatives of any State or just the State in which you are a citizen Z? You can't vote in the congressional elections in the State of New York because you aren't a citizen of the State of New York and only citizens of the State of New York may vote in the congressional races which decide the representation of the State of New York.

Since you are not a citizen of the State of New York, you cannot be a citizen of all of the States simultaneously, which means you aren't a "national" citizen.

QED

Not QED, P. Show me viable proof of your assertion there is no such thing as U.S. Citizenship.

And when have I ever, even once, said that Z? Of course there is such a thing a citizenship in the US, there just aren't any "national" citizens, which you claim to be.

A citizen is one who is a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it. The federal government, whatever else it may be, is indeed a government tasked by the Constitution to protect and defend the rights of the citizens of the States that belong to the United States of America. When you travel outside the Union, you do indeed look to that government for your protection, the Constitution specifically tasks the federal government with doing that. None of that, however, renders mute the fact that you are not a citizen of all 50 States and are instead a citizen of only one of them at any given time. You cannot, by law, be a citizen of more than one State that belongs to the Union. You cannot, for instance, enjoy dual citizenship of Colorado and Texas the way one might have dual citizenship in Colorado and Germany, or Colorado and Israel.

A citizen of one of the States that belongs to the Union is, by default, a citizen in the United States, but that citizenship in the United States is not a separate citizenship from the one of the State in which they reside, it is instead a consequence of that State citizenship for those native born in the Union. For naturalized citizens, because the federal government is tasked with establishing "an uniform rule of naturalization", the federal government is the controlling entity in bestowing citizenship in the United States, but, and it is an important but, a naturalized citizen becomes a citizen of the State in which they reside upon receiving their citizenship, not a citizen of all 50 States simultaneously.

You are now, have always been, and will always be, a citizen of one of the 50 States, not all of them.

PrintSmith wrote:

ZHawke wrote:

PrintSmith wrote: Can you vote for the representatives of any State or just the State in which you are a citizen Z? You can't vote in the congressional elections in the State of New York because you aren't a citizen of the State of New York and only citizens of the State of New York may vote in the congressional races which decide the representation of the State of New York.

Since you are not a citizen of the State of New York, you cannot be a citizen of all of the States simultaneously, which means you aren't a "national" citizen.

QED

Not QED, P. Show me viable proof of your assertion there is no such thing as U.S. Citizenship.

And when have I ever, even once, said that Z? Of course there is such a thing a citizenship in the US, there just aren't any "national" citizens, which you claim to be.

A citizen is one who is a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it. The federal government, whatever else it may be, is indeed a government tasked by the Constitution to protect and defend the rights of the citizens of the States that belong to the United States of America. When you travel outside the Union, you do indeed look to that government for your protection, the Constitution specifically tasks the federal government with doing that. None of that, however, renders mute the fact that you are not a citizen of all 50 States and are instead a citizen of only one of them at any given time. You cannot, by law, be a citizen of more than one State that belongs to the Union. You cannot, for instance, enjoy dual citizenship of Colorado and Texas the way one might have dual citizenship in Colorado and Germany, or Colorado and Israel.

A citizen of one of the States that belongs to the Union is, by default, a citizen in the United States, but that citizenship in the United States is not a separate citizenship from the one of the State in which they reside, it is instead a consequence of that State citizenship for those native born in the Union. For naturalized citizens, because the federal government is tasked with establishing "an uniform rule of naturalization", the federal government is the controlling entity in bestowing citizenship in the United States, but, and it is an important but, a naturalized citizen becomes a citizen of the State in which they reside upon receiving their citizenship, not a citizen of all 50 States simultaneously.

You are now, have always been, and will always be, a citizen of one of the 50 States, not all of them.

Once again, a marvelous play on words, but a deflection, none-the less, P. Show me the proof there is no such thing as U.S. Citizenship.

Why are you attempting to hold me to something I've never said Z? A United States citizen is a person who is a citizen in one, not all, of the States that belong to the Union. You said, in another thread, you were a "national" citizen first and foremost and I said there is no such thing as a "national" citizen who is a citizen of all 50 States. Now, since I have proven, repeatedly, that there is no such thing as citizenship in all 50 States at the same time, you are attempting to establish that I have said something I never said, namely that there is no such thing as US citizenship. I have explained the facts of citizenship to you. You are not now, nor have you ever been, nor will you ever be, a citizen of all 50 States at the same time. There is no such thing as a national citizen, they don't exist.

PrintSmith wrote: Why are you attempting to hold me to something I've never said Z? A United States citizen is a person who is a citizen in one, not all, of the States that belong to the Union. You said, in another thread, you were a "national" citizen first and foremost and I said there is no such thing as a "national" citizen who is a citizen of all 50 States. Now, since I have proven, repeatedly, that there is no such thing as citizenship in all 50 States at the same time, you are attempting to establish that I have said something I never said, namely that there is no such thing as US citizenship. I have explained the facts of citizenship to you. You are not now, nor have you ever been, nor will you ever be, a citizen of all 50 States at the same time. There is no such thing as a national citizen, they don't exist.

So you are finally admitting there is such as thing as U.S. citizenship?

Edited to add: And, for the record, you've "proven" nothing, in reality. You've posted repeatedly your own views on this issue, nothing more.

Thought I'd throw this one in there for you, P:

web.stanford.edu/group/gcasper_project/c...zenship-Identity.pdf

And this one, too:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law

My takeaway from both these links is that nationality and citizenship are kinda sorta intertwined. International law recognizes nationality when considering citizenship, both from a single "state" (meaning nation) and from two "states" (dual citizenship).

We can keep on going round and round on this issue, but it's really getting tiresome. I'll acknowledge your position that one can be a citizen of a particular state in this union if you'll acknowledge my position that U.S. citizenship is, in fact, real. I'm a U.S. citizen, first and foremost. Does that clear it up for you? Are you?

So your primary allegiance isn't to your neighbor, isn't to your fellow citizens of Colorado, be they rich, poor, black, white, aged, young or any combination thereof, it is to those whom you have never met, in States other than the one in which you are a citizen, and to a government which is furthest removed from you and in which you have the least representation. Is that really how you see yourself Z?

PrintSmith wrote: So your primary allegiance isn't to your neighbor, isn't to your fellow citizens of Colorado, be they rich, poor, black, white, aged, young or any combination thereof, it is to those whom you have never met, in States other than the one in which you are a citizen, and to a government which is furthest removed from you and in which you have the least representation. Is that really how you see yourself Z?

Are you a sovereign citizen?