It Can Happen Here.....

ZHawke wrote: ...... does that mean we can't do anything to stop them?

Yes Z, that's exactly what it means. There is nothing we can do to stop events from occurring. The only control we have is over our own actions. We can't control the actions of others, which is what we would need to have in order to stop the event from happening.

PrintSmith wrote:

ZHawke wrote: ...... does that mean we can't do anything to stop them?

Yes Z, that's exactly what it means. There is nothing we can do to stop events from occurring. The only control we have is over our own actions. We can't control the actions of others, which is what we would need to have in order to stop the event from happening.

Thank you, PS, for pointing that out. Perhaps a poor choice of wording on my part. I'll word it a bit differently to reflect the issue you referenced.

"Does that mean we shouldn't try to at least do SOMETHING to stop them?" That these types of events will keep on occurring is pretty much a given. That there are things that can be done to mitigate them, to prepare for them, to respond to them, and to recover from them is also pretty much a given. It's a personal choice, in my opinion.

ZHawke wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

ZHawke wrote: ...... does that mean we can't do anything to stop them?

Yes Z, that's exactly what it means. There is nothing we can do to stop events from occurring. The only control we have is over our own actions. We can't control the actions of others, which is what we would need to have in order to stop the event from happening.

Thank you, PS, for pointing that out. Perhaps a poor choice of wording on my part. I'll word it a bit differently to reflect the issue you referenced.

"Does that mean we shouldn't try to at least do SOMETHING to stop them?" That these types of events will keep on occurring is pretty much a given. That there are things that can be done to mitigate them, to prepare for them, to respond to them, and to recover from them is also pretty much a given. It's a personal choice, in my opinion.

I agree with PS here- There is nothing we can do to stop events from occurring. Not without resorting to total authoritarian control where every minute of our lives is under surveillance- where every kid gets searched going in and out of every school- where every parent freaks out over even the slightest sign of confrontation- where every teacher gets her students classified as "correctional clients"- where every principle kicks out every kid who forgets and leaves a butter knife in her lunchbox.

Is that how you want to live- how you want the next generation to live?

We can however- possibly- do somthing about the constant overaction and media frenzy- every time an event occurs. Here we are - 10 years after columbine and people are still fixated on this freak event- still expending evergy trying to sort out "what went wrong"- oh my- what on earth can we do?

You can no better fix the future - it's just as much of a task as trying to change the past. You have as much a chance of preventing the next event from occuring as you have a chance of preventing the next fatal auto accident from occuring. Stuff happens.

The extension of all this energy is just as unproductive as that- but maybe we can spend some energy trying to reverse the political correctness that has led to all this non-sense in the first place- oh- on second thought- that's an epic waste of time too.

BearMtnHIB wrote: I agree with PS here- There is nothing we can do to stop events from occurring. Not without resorting to total authoritarian control where every minute of our lives is under surveillance- where every kid gets searched going in and out of every school- where every parent freaks out over even the slightest sign of confrontation- where every teacher gets her students classified as "correctional clients"- where every principle kicks out every kid who forgets and leaves a butter knife in her lunchbox.

Is that how you want to live- how you want the next generation to live?

We can however- possibly- do somthing about the constant overaction and media frenzy- every time an event occurs. Here we are - 10 years after columbine and people are still fixated on this freak event- still expending evergy trying to sort out "what went wrong"- oh my- what on earth can we do?

You can no better fix the future - it's just as much of a task as trying to change the past. You have as much a chance of preventing the next event from occuring as you have a chance of preventing the next fatal auto accident from occuring. Stuff happens.

The extension of all this energy is just as unproductive as that- but maybe we can spend some energy trying to reverse the political correctness that has led to all this non-sense in the first place- oh- on second thought- that's an epic waste of time too.

Please don't misunderstand me - I agree we cannot "stop" events from occurring. There is NO doubt about that. It's the rest of your posit, I guess I have more of an issue with.

It's not just the juvenile delinquent types we are talking about here. It's not just the "bullying" issue that needs to be addressed. Rather, it's a "full-spectrum" of risks that each and every school is required by law to address by anticipating their likelihood, their consequences if they do occur, what to do in response to them in the event they do occur, how to disseminate accurate public information during the event, and how the school (and by school, I include students, administrators, instructional staff, maintenance staff, parents, and the rest of the affected community) will ultimately "recover" after the event is concluded.

The OP provided a link to a video about the reality that bad things DO happen. Part of the intro from the webpage also states:

“It Can Happen Here” also provides the viewers with the resources needed to develop a new school safety plan and to assess and improve upon an existing plan, primarily through relationship building and technology.

While I will acknowledge that the events at Columbine High School and at Platte Canyon High School are the "inspiration", if you will, of this video, the fact also remains that the video discusses the "need" for a full spectrum emergency management program and how it can help in the event something bad does happen.

In my opinion, it is unfortunate that our society has reached a point where it is literally forced, more or less, to rely on lessons learned from events such as occurred at Columbine and Platte Canyon (and others, as well) to help determine what to do to prepare to respond to them in other locations. But to ignore their "value" (perhaps a callous word choice, but accurate none the less) in doing so would be absolutely remiss of all of us in providing safer school environments nationally. Are strictures sometimes over played, as a result? Perhaps, but those instances you mention in your post, if found to be too onerous, can be amended by appropriate personnel, just as procedures to respond to horrific acts of school violence are amended to allow for better response should the need ever arise again.

BearMtnHIB wrote: I was going to stay out of this silly discussion- but then I changed my mind. Aside from all the touchy-feely subjects, I thought I'd offer my opinion on this subject- but it's not going to be what many want to hear, but hey- my opinion happens to be the right one. It will not be the politically correct one.

This problem has no top-down solution- and it most definitely does not have a government solution. In fact- most of the reasons why these type of events are happening in the first place - can be traced to government and to school policies that have prevented the "old school" way for students to resolve issues. The blame can be placed on a political correctness - at the educator level, at the school management level and at the "micro-manager" parent level.

All three groups - teachers, principles and parents are to blame for the situation we find ourselves in today. By going the touchy-feely politically correct route with school policy - we have discouraged even the most minor issues from being resolved the way kids woiuld naturally- in some cases by fighting it out. Our kids are punished if even a whiff of a confrontation becomes apparent. Kids are taught to "talk it out" or "walk away"- until the frustration builds and kids think there is no other way but to turn to drastic measures.

I grew up in East LA until the age of 14. Imagine for a minute- do you think a white kid ever got picked on in grade school in East LA? Ever got bullied? You better believe it.

I had gang members waiting for me on my walk home (7 blocks to home). While heads got cracked, and arms got cut, lips got swelled up- eyes got blackened - very rarely did any serious injuries or death occur. We worked it out. A fight after school was not uncommon. Many times the 2 who fought wound up as friends.

Now I'm not saying every issue has to be resolved this way- if a teacher notices a bully- that kid needs to be delt with, but many issues would go away if the parent, teacher, principle would just quit trying to micro-manage every situation. Kids now days do not have the option of working these things out by themselves.

A kid turning to a gun or other weapon was pretty rare when I was in grade school- and I went to school in a pretty rough neighborhood. Seems kids today are turning to guns- and they are usually from upper-middle class neighborhoods. If we didn't get jumped on the way home from school- we caught up with our adversary in gym class- on the baseball or football field.

I know what today's parents, teachers and principles are thinking- more control- more supervision- more helicopter moms- more rules and more punishment- I'm here to tell ya- the problems are going to get worse.

We worked out 99 out of 100 issues ourselves when I was a kid. Stop mico-managing every single minute of our kids lives- and we can give them the freedom - the options they need to be kids- they will resolve these issues on their own- 99% of the time.

:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:
If you aren't the most boring guy on earth then youre a close second to Liberial GOP's Twin or whatever its name is..The OVER/UNDER on how many people actually read that entire post is a 1/2 and i'd bet the UNDER big time..RU kidding?

Condense your posts..Make them readable

Good thing I didn't write my posts for ADD aflicted half-wits with below room temprature IQ's then.

Was that short enough for ya sport?

And both of you guys' last comments really don't add anything significant to the discussion other than an adversarial tone. This thread is supposed to be about promoting school safety. If you want to call each other names, that's fine. Just do it somewhere else, please.

Thanks.