It Can Happen Here.....

12 Mar 2012 12:01 #1 by ZHawke
It Can Happen Here..... was created by ZHawke
From the webpage:

“It Can Happen Here” is a documentary video designed to inform and compel audiences of school safety stakeholders to prepare for man-made and natural emergencies.



Given the fact that incidents of school violence have not been eliminated, this video is a real eye opener, in my opinion.

http://www.arl.psu.edu/WPSTC/schools.php

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13 Mar 2012 15:51 #2 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic It Can Happen Here.....
There's been an ongoing hue and cry in The Study in a thread regarding the killing of 16 civilians in Afghanistan by a U.S. soldier:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/us-soldier-allegedly-massacres-16-afghan-civilians-killing-15900681 . I hesitate to bring this subject up in this thread because, at first glance, it isn't related to school safety. However, I've been thinking about this, and one of the things I heard over and over and over following the shootings at Columbine High School was "it looks like a war zone". Can parallels be drawn? Should they be drawn? It is my understanding that Eric Harris tried to join the military and was denied. Do we condone the killings in Afghanistan because they are of a military nature? Thoughts, please? TEACH PEACE!

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18 Mar 2012 10:00 #3 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic It Can Happen Here.....
Found this image in my random wanderings, and thought it would be appropriate here:

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18 Mar 2012 10:06 #4 by JSG
Replied by JSG on topic It Can Happen Here.....
I'm not so much worried about school violence (it happens from time to time but hasn't increased since Columbine).

I'm more worried about what happens when the war in the Mideast is over and all those soldiers with PTSD come home and something at home sets them off.

Fort Carson has documented an increase in violence by soldiers of one brigade that has served multiple tours in in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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18 Mar 2012 10:21 #5 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic It Can Happen Here.....

JSG wrote: I'm not so much worried about school violence (it happens from time to time but hasn't increased since Columbine).

I'm more worried about what happens when the war in the Mideast is over and all those soldiers with PTSD come home and something at home sets them off.

Fort Carson has documented an increase in violence by soldiers of one brigade that has served multiple tours in in Iraq and Afghanistan.


In my opinion, we should be concerned with both types of violence. Since Columbine, we've seen horrific tragedies at places like Nickel Mines, PA, Virginia Tech, and others. School violence varies by degree, as does any kind of violence, PTSD related tragedies included. I guess what I'm trying to say is, perhaps we could take a harder look at levels of risk vs. the potential consequences of specific types of violence? Acts of school violence, from what I understand, have always been viewed as "low risk/high consequence" types of events. Could acts of violence related to PTSD be considered similar? Regardless, we need to plan and prepare for both types of events, again, in my opinion.

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19 Mar 2012 12:14 #6 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic It Can Happen Here.....
Will it be enough?

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2012/03/bullying-president-barack-obama-tyler-clementi-jamey-rodemeyer

Personally, I doubt it will. But it's another "finger in the hole in the dike", so to speak.

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19 Mar 2012 12:58 #7 by BearMtnHIB
Replied by BearMtnHIB on topic It Can Happen Here.....
I was going to stay out of this silly discussion- but then I changed my mind. Aside from all the touchy-feely subjects, I thought I'd offer my opinion on this subject- but it's not going to be what many want to hear, but hey- my opinion happens to be the right one. It will not be the politically correct one.

This problem has no top-down solution- and it most definitely does not have a government solution. In fact- most of the reasons why these type of events are happening in the first place - can be traced to government and to school policies that have prevented the "old school" way for students to resolve issues. The blame can be placed on a political correctness - at the educator level, at the school management level and at the "micro-manager" parent level.

All three groups - teachers, principles and parents are to blame for the situation we find ourselves in today. By going the touchy-feely politically correct route with school policy - we have discouraged even the most minor issues from being resolved the way kids woiuld naturally- in some cases by fighting it out. Our kids are punished if even a whiff of a confrontation becomes apparent. Kids are taught to "talk it out" or "walk away"- until the frustration builds and kids think there is no other way but to turn to drastic measures.

I grew up in East LA until the age of 14. Imagine for a minute- do you think a white kid ever got picked on in grade school in East LA? Ever got bullied? You better believe it.

I had gang members waiting for me on my walk home (7 blocks to home). While heads got cracked, and arms got cut, lips got swelled up- eyes got blackened - very rarely did any serious injuries or death occur. We worked it out. A fight after school was not uncommon. Many times the 2 who fought wound up as friends.

Now I'm not saying every issue has to be resolved this way- if a teacher notices a bully- that kid needs to be delt with, but many issues would go away if the parent, teacher, principle would just quit trying to micro-manage every situation. Kids now days do not have the option of working these things out by themselves.

A kid turning to a gun or other weapon was pretty rare when I was in grade school- and I went to school in a pretty rough neighborhood. Seems kids today are turning to guns- and they are usually from upper-middle class neighborhoods. If we didn't get jumped on the way home from school- we caught up with our adversary in gym class- on the baseball or football field.

I know what today's parents, teachers and principles are thinking- more control- more supervision- more helicopter moms- more rules and more punishment- I'm here to tell ya- the problems are going to get worse.

We worked out 99 out of 100 issues ourselves when I was a kid. Stop mico-managing every single minute of our kids lives- and we can give them the freedom - the options they need to be kids- they will resolve these issues on their own- 99% of the time.

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19 Mar 2012 13:20 #8 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic It Can Happen Here.....
BearMtnHIB, while I can agree, to an extent, with a few of the things you've stated, there are also no "simplistic" answers, such as those you've given, to some very complex issues. No two situations are ever identical, period. The "if I want your opinion, I'll give it to you" approach to these issues will more than likely not convince anyone to either accept your positions or to work with you to solve these problems.

Laying blame and pointing fingers, in my opinion, isn't the answer. Nor is "going back to the good old days" a panacea.

If you think discussing the issues and trying to do something about them is "a silly discussion", then, by all means, stay out of it. If you believe, on the other hand, that your position needs to be addressed, please join in the discussion. But, do not expect everyone to agree with you. After all, your position, as you stated yourself, isn't the "politically correct" version that everyone wants to hear.

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19 Mar 2012 13:31 #9 by BearMtnHIB
Replied by BearMtnHIB on topic It Can Happen Here.....
Well - if you are in the camp of "more control"- "more supervision"- more "helicopter moms"- "more rules" "more surveillance" "more lectures" and "more punishment"- I'm here to tell ya- the problems are going to get worse.

Hardly any of these kinds of school shootings took place 40 years ago- so please ask yourself why. These are manifestations that have developed since the conception of the "touchy-feely" "politically correct" era.

Just get ready for more problems- problems that you're generation have generated. I blame hippies.

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19 Mar 2012 14:19 #10 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic It Can Happen Here.....

BearMtnHIB wrote: Well - if you are in the camp of "more control"- "more supervision"- more "helicopter moms"- "more rules" "more surveillance" "more lectures" and "more punishment"- I'm here to tell ya- the problems are going to get worse.

Hardly any of these kinds of school shootings took place 40 years ago- so please ask yourself why. These are manifestations that have developed since the conception of the "touchy-feely" "politically correct" era.

Just get ready for more problems- problems that you're generation have generated. I blame hippies.


Your assuming that I am in the group you mention has no validity. If you believe the "problems are going to get worse", which they may, does that mean we can't do anything to stop them?

You are correct when you say hardly any of these kinds of school shootings took place 40 years ago, but then again, maybe not.

Notable events include Bath, MI back in 1927 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster , Austin, TX at UT in 1966 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman or any number of other acts of school violence in the 40 year span of time you indicated http://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/02/15/timeline-of-school-shootings . Perhaps we should go back even a bit further to include http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting .

I'd rather see a discussion on how to prevent these types of incidents from occurring rather than focusing on whether or not they actually occurred. I'd rather ask myself what I might be able to do to help solve the problems we face today, not necessarily go back to letting the "system" take care of itself.

Go ahead and blame hippies. You gotta blame someone, might as well be them. :biggrin:

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