Why you should stop believing in evolution

23 Aug 2014 21:39 - 23 Aug 2014 21:42 #11 by BuyersAgent
Hmmm...what an interesting topic.

My input would be that the forces of evolution are not merely driven by diplomacy or cooperative peace-making but through the challenging of one life form by another. The "drive" is in the confrontation and defense mechanisms of the creations made, not in their (our) survival in a static state.

When particles accelerate beyond the point they can sustain their energy, they "fall backward" into previous orbits, and it is in this "falling back" (not the striving forward) that energies are released as opposed to consumed. We are not just part of the animal and vegetable kingdoms but cast from the elements of the Universe itself, so like all of Creation we are combustible and adaptable, constantly either reaching forward or falling back, and thereby helping drive the engines of life.

Kathy G. Hansen
Broker/Owner
COLORADO HIGHLIGHTS REALTY
303-761-4046
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24 Aug 2014 08:17 - 24 Aug 2014 13:14 #12 by Arlen

ScienceChic wrote: That's hilarious, considering that I trained as a geneticist. :biggrin: It was one of the first disciplines to prove how changes could occur over time through mutation, genetic drift, punctuated equilibrium, and speciation. I highly recommend reading The Selfish Gene and The Extended Phenotype by Dawkins.

How are big picture pondering divorced from facts?

Renegade, my apologies for not getting back to you earlier. I do not think he intended the title as an insult at all, nor do I think he's trying to say that evolution occurred from nothing. Indeed, at the end of his writing, he said "But there's no reason for people of faith to reject the mountains of data and the evidence of their own senses. Reconciling is easy: Believe, if you want to, that God set up the rules of evolution among His wonders, along with the laws of physics, and probability, and everything else we can see and measure for ourselves."

Evolution does not attempt to answer the question of where/how everything began, it deals only with the process of how things have changed since then. There's not reason that a deity couldn't have created it as a system, and there's no reason that it couldn't just have occurred by following the laws of physics.

Apparently you were not in a course which dealt with the nitty-gritty of genetics. You were in a class that studied evolution and stated theories that have nothing to do with genetics. What you were told were lies.
One of the first principles of mutation is that mutation is extremely harmful to the organism, not helpful.
Punctuated equilibrium is a concept that evolutionists have created to get around Darwin's idea of accumulated change. Darwin said that if a person believed that change came suddenly, the person believed in miracles. He scoffed at such a notion.
Punctuated equilibrium is observable in organisms that have been pushed to the limit by inbreeding. But, punctuated equilibrium is the reaction which brings the organisms back to normal.

Please quit trying to bullsh** about the subject in order to show that it is "fact". Your reading on this subject has nothing to do with the nitty-gritty of demonstrable science.

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18 Sep 2014 15:37 #13 by ScienceChic
My apologies for the delay in responding, we've had security software hang-ups that were blocking this post and it took a while to find the specific problem and resolve it. Here it finally is:

:) Arlen, you are passing judgement upon things of which you have no knowledge. Evolution is taught as a stand-alone class, as is genetics, in college. Once you get to graduate school, it gets more intensely interwoven, and I can assure you that I have had both levels of education, and done primary research directly dealing with genetics.

Here are a couple of my scientific publications, if you'd like verification:
Fine Mapping of an Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis Modifier Locus to a Single BAC

Mutations in the Cu/Zn superoxide dismutase (SOD1) gene are responsible for 15-20% of familial amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (FALS) cases. Severity of the ALS phenotype is dependent on genetic background for mice carrying the mG86R SOD1 transgene. A BAC (149m19) containing several candidate genes (Serf, Smn, Naip2 and Naip5) and derived from 129Sv genomic DNA was used to investigate whether these genes partially rescue the mG86R SOD1 (FVB/NJ) ALS phenotype by delaying ALS onset. Two single-insertion BAC lines were produced and both mRNA and protein for BAC genes were shown to be elevated. Mice heterozygous for mG86R SOD1 and BAC149m19 in the FVB/NJ background were shown to have significantly delayed ALS onset compared to mG86R SOD1 controls. BAC 149m19 did not significantly delay ALS onset for mice carrying the human G93A SOD1 mutation in the FVB/NJ background. Delayed ALS onset for BAC/mG86R mice was not due to reduced SOD1 expression. Overexpression of one or more of the BAC genes appears to be linked to the severity of ALS phenotype in mice, but in a mutation specific manner.


The Genomic Organization of the Gene Encoding the Vanilloid Receptor: Evidence for Multiple Splice Variants

Characterization of the genomic structure encoding the 5′ portion of rat Vr1 confirmed that VR.5′sv is derived from the VR gene; however, SIC seemed to be derived from two related but independent genes. We also deduced the genomic organization of the human gene VR1. Comparative studies of rat and human VR genes showed substantial conservation in genomic organization. The splice site flanking exon–intron 7 in rat and human VR1 diverged from the expected consensus sequence; this may help to explain the skipping of exon 7 within VR.5′sv and other VR splice variants.


Now, on to the definition of mutation . Sorry, but a "principle" of mutation is not that it must be harmful. A mutation is merely a sequence alteration - it can be beneficial, neutral/cause no change, or harmful.

Definition: Any alteration in a gene from its natural state; may be disease causing or a benign, normal variant.
A mutation is a change in a DNA sequence. Mutations can result from DNA copying mistakes made during cell division, exposure to ionizing radiation, exposure to chemicals called mutagens, or infection by viruses. Germ line mutations occur in the eggs and sperm and can be passed on to offspring, while somatic mutations occur in body cells and are not passed on.


And sorry, but Punctuated equilibrium does not "get around" Darwin's idea of accumulated change, nor does it have anything to do with "inbreeding". It says that change does not occur in a smooth, even pace, rather it can happen in "spurts" followed by periods of little change. It does not preclude gradual change occurring during "stasis" periods. For more on the subject, read Stephen Jay Gould's books - he's one of the scientists who came up with the idea and was its most vocal proponent. Brilliant man, egotistical and arrogant as all get out, but brilliant.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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