What Does The $1.75 Trillion Deficit Mean for You and Me?

major bean wrote: Taxes only take money from the economy. This slows the economy.

Nice conservative talking point, but absolutely not true.

I'm responding, knowing you won't pay attention to what I say, but in the hopes that others reading this will....

Where do you think those taxes go? They don't disappear They go to the government.

The government uses taxes to pay for government projects. It doesn't hoard them and keep them out of the economy, it uses them to pay for projects. The projects are carried out by workers who get paid and in turn use their pay to buy things.

The U.S. budget situation has deteriorated significantly since 2001, when the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) forecast average annual surpluses of approximately $850 billion from 2009-2012. The average deficit forecast in each of those years as of June 2009 was approximately $1,215 billion. The New York Times analyzed this roughly $2 trillion "swing," separating the causes into four major categories along with their share:

* Recessions or the business cycle (37%);
* Policies enacted by President Bush (33%);
* Policies enacted by President Bush and supported or extended by President Obama (20%); and
* New policies from President Obama (10%).

CBO data is based only on current law, so policy proposals that have yet to be made law are not included in their analysis. The article states that "President Obama’s agenda ... is responsible for only a sliver of the deficits", but that he "...does not have a realistic plan for reducing the deficit..." Presidents have no Constitutional authority to levy taxes or spend money, as this responsibility resides with the Congress, although a President's priorities influence Congressional action.

But back to your point about taxes taking money out of the economy. Where do you believe taxes go?

kresspin wrote:

major bean wrote: Taxes only take money from the economy. This slows the economy.

Nice conservative talking point, but absolutely not true.

I'm responding, knowing you won't pay attention to what I say, but in the hopes that others reading this will....

Where do you think those taxes go? They don't disappear They go to the government.

The government uses taxes to pay for government projects. It doesn't hoard them and keep them out of the economy, it uses them to pay for projects. The projects are carried out by workers who get paid and in turn use their pay to buy things.

The U.S. budget situation has deteriorated significantly since 2001, when the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) forecast average annual surpluses of approximately $850 billion from 2009-2012. The average deficit forecast in each of those years as of June 2009 was approximately $1,215 billion. The New York Times analyzed this roughly $2 trillion "swing," separating the causes into four major categories along with their share:

* Recessions or the business cycle (37%);
* Policies enacted by President Bush (33%);
* Policies enacted by President Bush and supported or extended by President Obama (20%); and
* New policies from President Obama (10%).

CBO data is based only on current law, so policy proposals that have yet to be made law are not included in their analysis. The article states that "President Obama’s agenda ... is responsible for only a sliver of the deficits", but that he "...does not have a realistic plan for reducing the deficit..." Presidents have no Constitutional authority to levy taxes or spend money, as this responsibility resides with the Congress, although a President's priorities influence Congressional action.

But back to your point about taxes taking money out of the economy. Where do you believe taxes go?

Interesting to see how Congress gets none of the blame. They actually create the budget.

But back on topic, if you want to see the future of a world according to Kresspin, just look at the PIIGS, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, & Spain, all socialist countries who let people retire early and guarantee medical benefits and now all these countries are appealing to their Euro brothers for more bailouts.

And the current budget battle? So much ado about nothing! Threatening to shut down the goverment based on a 1/2% reduction in the budget or a 1% reduction. :bash

kresspin wrote: But back to your point about taxes taking money out of the economy. Where do you believe taxes go?

A capitalist economy naturally spends money where the capitalist economy needs it. It is self-correcting. A government planned economy spends without regard to the health of the economy. Planned economies have NEVER succeeded but are self-limiting in regards to economic health, are detrimental and, if pervasive enough, fatal.

Where does the money go? It goes to projects which do not grow the economy. Please consider this carefully. One would think that all spending would spur the economy, but this is not the case.
I will give two homey examples:
1. A man born with two legs (capitalism) pointed in the same direction will be able to outrun any other man born with three legs with one of those legs (gov't spending) pointed in a contrary direction.
2. You have pheumonia and are taking the most wonderful healing drug along with huge doses of arsenic. Your illness will worsen and you will die.

Some gov't spending will spur the economy. But those projects are rare and are not every project.

Great anaolgies MB. The one that I always think of is when you go to a charity event and drop a couple hundred bucks, then find out later that only $.40 of every dollar went to the actual people that needed it, the rest went for "organizing and administrative' costs. I think it would be impossible for any company on the planet to stay in business longer than a year if it had the same kind of wasteful beaurocracy as our government has. It's like a giant middleman who is deaf, blind, and corrupt.

major bean wrote:

kresspin wrote: But back to your point about taxes taking money out of the economy. Where do you believe taxes go?

A capitalist economy naturally spends money where the capitalist economy needs it. It is self-correcting. A government planned economy spends without regard to the health of the economy. Planned economies have NEVER succeeded but are self-limiting in regards to economic health, are detrimental and, if pervasive enough, fatal.

Where does the money go? It goes to projects which do not grow the economy. Please consider this carefully. One would think that all spending would spur the economy, but this is not the case.
I will give two homey examples:
1. A man born with two legs (capitalism) pointed in the same direction will be able to outrun any other man born with three legs with one of those legs (gov't spending) pointed in a contrary direction.
2. You have pheumonia and are taking the most wonderful healing drug along with huge doses of arsenic. Your illness will worsen and you will die.

Some gov't spending will spur the economy. But those projects are rare and are not every project.

The bridge to no where is a real example. Ethanol subsidies are another. This list goes on and on........ These payouts may benefit some, but they are a waste. Ethanol is not a good way to deal with the energy issues, in the mean time our environment pays the price, while agribusinesses enjoy profits at the expense of not only taxpayers, but hungry people all over the world.

I would rather have people who earned it decide how to spend their money rather than high paid lobbyists and their government pals. Individual people's concern for their economies will in turn create a sustainable economy. Lobbyists and their government pals, as the individual are also concerned for their personal economies, but they did not earn the money they want to use.

Something else that was mentioned during the budget crisis: the non-essential government employees would be furlowed.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?! Hell, if they're not essential, FIRE THEM!!!

kresspin wrote:

major bean wrote: Taxes only take money from the economy. This slows the economy.

Nice conservative talking point, but absolutely not true.

I'm responding, knowing you won't pay attention to what I say, but in the hopes that others reading this will....

Where do you think those taxes go? They don't disappear They go to the government.

The government uses taxes to pay for government projects. It doesn't hoard them and keep them out of the economy, it uses them to pay for projects. The projects are carried out by workers who get paid and in turn use their pay to buy things.

Kresspin-Economic law disagrees with you. Every single dollar the govt taxes is one less dollar which is used for economic growth. It expands nothing. Can govt. spend $1, for every dollar they collect??? No, of course not. They have a massive bureaucracy to support. Most of the $ collected goes to "overhead" and waste, a small portion goes back into productive activities which grow the economy. Govt. creates nothing, they don't create businesses which create jobs. They are just an overhead burner. Yes, they do pay employees, who then spend the $$...but that is the end of that $$. No product is created for others to purchase, which create more jobs, etc.

One other thing. Paying the lowest price for things is the best idea, otherwise you have wasted $$ in the economy, never to be recovered. Govt. provides no services at the "lowest costs". The small amount of work they do is completed at excessive cost vs. private sector work, because they have so many rules an paperwork.

If having 47% of the workforce working for the government is good, then let's make it 100%, which would be wonderful. Same agencies, same bureaus.
What would happen to the economy then? Answer: it would fail like no other economy has ever failed. Immediately.

Liberal logic is crazy!

RenegadeCJ wrote:

kresspin wrote:

major bean wrote: Taxes only take money from the economy. This slows the economy.

Nice conservative talking point, but absolutely not true.

I'm responding, knowing you won't pay attention to what I say, but in the hopes that others reading this will....

Where do you think those taxes go? They don't disappear They go to the government.

The government uses taxes to pay for government projects. It doesn't hoard them and keep them out of the economy, it uses them to pay for projects. The projects are carried out by workers who get paid and in turn use their pay to buy things.

Kresspin-Economic law disagrees with you. Every single dollar the govt taxes is one less dollar which is used for economic growth. It expands nothing. Can govt. spend $1, for every dollar they collect??? No, of course not. They have a massive bureaucracy to support. Most of the $ collected goes to "overhead" and waste, a small portion goes back into productive activities which grow the economy. Govt. creates nothing, they don't create businesses which create jobs. They are just an overhead burner. Yes, they do pay employees, who then spend the $$...but that is the end of that $$. No product is created for others to purchase, which create more jobs, etc.

One other thing. Paying the lowest price for things is the best idea, otherwise you have wasted $$ in the economy, never to be recovered. Govt. provides no services at the "lowest costs". The small amount of work they do is completed at excessive cost vs. private sector work, because they have so many rules an paperwork.

OK, so what happens to the salaries paid to the hundreds of thousands (or millions) of government employees?

It goes to pay for their houses, cars, groceries. They spend money the same as private sector employees do. That creates economic growth.

If they don't buy houses, cars and groceries then there wouldn't need to be as many houses, cars and as much food. Remove those incomes from the economy then, if they that 47% isn't responsible for any kind of economic growth.

It is like cutting in half the salaries of those in the private sector. The government employees are leeches.