Some Obama birth records made public for years

If someone trots out old, false cliches in order to justify being closed minded that person is pretty sad.

kresspin wrote: Obama's mother was an American citizen. Simply, by virtue of being born to at least one parent who is a citizen, he IS also a natural U.S. citizen. That is a fact. Deal with it. My neice was born in a civilian German hospital while my brother was stationed over there in the army. She is and always has been a U.S. citizen.

Then there is also the fact that two different Honolulu newspapers have released Obama's birth announcements from their archives.

It's just unfathomable to me that people believe that Obama, despite only being a player on the national level of politics for about 6 years at the time, had somehow managed to very quietly become so powerful that he was able to have people not only get a fake birth certificate filed 40 years retroactively with the state of Hawaii...under a republican governor at the time...and plant two birth announcement in the micro-fiched archives of two newspapers..and be so successful at pulling off this ruse that even the mightiest of politicians and media and business titans can't find a shred of irrefutable proof that he did any of it.

Wow. That's some pretty far fetched conspiracy theories there. Most politicians can't even keep their pants zipped up or their checkbooks balanced but to believe in a birther conspiracy you would have to believe that the president is not only a genius and master manipulator but engenders so much loyalty that not one person who might have supposedly played a role in any of this alleged deception...from a high-level secret agent to a lowly records clerk...has come forward to give credence to any of the rumors.

I'm sorry....but the deck of evidence and improbabilities are stacked heavily against the birthers and their refusal to drop this issue will ultimately only serve to bolster Obama's supporters.

Maybe the whole birther movement is just a conspiracy in itself. Maybe Obama is actually behind it to make conservative look crazy. Either way, they do and it's a look into what kind of dingbats are on the fringe right.

Not so fast my friend. Let's clarify this a bit. My father was a naturalized American citizen when I was born. Neither I nor my younger brother were automatically granted American citizenship. Both of us had to go the naturalization route. Hence your information and mine point to a potential minor but important point. If one of the parents is an American citizen in the sense of being born in the US as opposed to being a naturalized American, then the child born to them is granted American citizenship status. Do you happen to know which condition applied to Obama's parents? Obviously, as pointed out by another poster, that if the child is born in the US, the parental citizenship is a mute point.

IIRC, Barack Obama Sr. had already moved onto another woman when Barry was born. So the missing father might have been the embarassing part.

I heard one pundit say he thinks part of the reason behind the birther's denial of the short form live birth certificate is to deny our POTUS his humanity. Could very well be for some.

Not all citizens born within the U.S. are "natural" born citizens. If a person has but one parent who is a citizen and the other is a foreign national, then the baby is born as a U.S. citizen, but not a "natural" citizen which requires that both parents be citizens of the U.S.

major bean wrote: Not all citizens born within the U.S. are "natural" born citizens. If a person has but one parent who is a citizen and the other is a foreign national, then the baby is born as a U.S. citizen, but not a "natural" citizen which requires that both parents be citizens of the U.S.

As usual, not true...

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision. [This is the only "exception" to being a "natural born citizen", and does NOT fall into the definition you provided.]

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.

The law contains one other section of historical note, concerning the Panama Canal Zone and the nation of Panama. In 8 USC 1403, the law states that anyone born in the Canal Zone or in Panama itself, on or after February 26, 1904, to a mother and/or father who is a United States citizen, was "declared" to be a United States citizen. Note that the terms "natural-born" or "citizen at birth" are missing from this section.

In 2008, when Arizona Senator John McCain ran for president on the Republican ticket, some theorized that because McCain was born in the Canal Zone, he was not actually qualified to be president. However, it should be noted that section 1403 was written to apply to a small group of people to whom section 1401 did not apply. McCain is a natural-born citizen under 8 USC 1401(c): "a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person." Not everyone agrees that this section includes McCain — but absent a court ruling either way, we must presume citizenship.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

Why should that opinion page make me consider it as truth?

Where did they get the idea that if your are born a citizen, you are automatically a "natural" born citizen?

major bean wrote: Why should that opinion page make me consider it as truth?

Where did they get the idea that if your are born a citizen, you are automatically a "natural" born citizen?

You obviously did not click on the link to the source of the material:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... -000-.html

And you obviously have me confused with someone who gives a sh*t if you consider documents from the US Code § 1401, Cornell University School of Law to be truth or not.

Rockdoc Franz wrote: If one of the parents is an American citizen in the sense of being born in the US as opposed to being a naturalized American, then the child born to them is granted American citizenship status. Do you happen to know which condition applied to Obama's parents? Obviously, as pointed out by another poster, that if the child is born in the US, the parental citizenship is a mute point.

Obama's mother was born in Wichita, Kansas to two U.S. citizen parents. She spent her childhood in California, Oklahoma, Texas and Kansas and her teenage years in Mercer Island, Washington. She was not a naturalized U.S. citizen.

So far as I know, the President and Vice President are required by the Constitution (Article 2 and 12th Admendment) to be natural born citizens.

But members of Congress don't have such a strict requirement and can even be naturalized citizens.

So it seems there would be an interesting constitutional conflict if some day the President and Vice President were incapacited and the Speaker of the House became President. What if the Speaker were a naturalized citizen, or did not meet other constitutional requirements to be President?

Just wondering...