Rockdoc Franz wrote: BTW, I do not see a minimum speed limit posted on our roads up here, but I do see a maximum speed limit. Going too slow uphill??? Not according to the law.
Having already established that cyclists need to follow motorized vehicle laws:
((1) Every person riding a bicycle shall have all of the rights and duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this article, except as to special regulations in this article and except as to those provisions which by their nature can have no application. Said riders shall comply with the rules set forth in this section and section 42-4-221, and, when using streets and highways within incorporated cities and towns, shall be subject to local ordinances regulating the operation of bicycles as provided in section 42-4-111. )
I would propose that there are very well defined laws regarding impeding traffic (that are completely and blatantly ignored by a vast majority of cyclists on the mountain roads)
42-4-1103. Minimum speed regulation.
(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on any highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable forward movement of traffic, except when a reduced speed is necessary for safe operation of such vehicle or in compliance with law.
(2) Whenever the department of transportation or local authorities within their respective jurisdictions determine, on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation as described in the state traffic control manual, that slow speeds on any part of a highway consistently impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, said department or such local authority may determine and declare a minimum speed limit below which no person shall drive a vehicle, except when necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.
(3) Notwithstanding any minimum speed that may be authorized and posted pursuant to this section, if any person drives a motor vehicle on a highway outside an incorporated area or on any controlled-access highway at a speed less than the normal and reasonable speed of traffic under the conditions then and there existing and by so driving at such slower speed impedes or retards the normal and reasonable movement of vehicular traffic following immediately behind, then such driver shall:
(a) Where the width of the traveled way permits, drive in the right-hand lane available to traffic or on the extreme right side of the roadway consistent with the provisions of section 42-4-1001 (2) until such impeded traffic has passed by; or
(b) Pull off the roadway at the first available place where such movement can safely and lawfully be made until such impeded traffic has passed by.
(4) Wherever special uphill traffic lanes or roadside turnouts are provided and posted, drivers of all vehicles proceeding at less than the normal and reasonable speed of traffic shall use such lanes or turnouts to allow other vehicles to pass or maintain normal traffic flow.
(5) Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class A traffic infraction.
Obviously the focus is on bike riders being slow going up hill. Given the above statues you cite, is it not also true that any farm vehicle or heavy equipment (not working on the road but simple moving from point A to also goes too slowly as their maximum speed is between 20-30 mph? If you want to play games by hiding behind regulations to justify an attitude, you can. Certainly, you can gig me if I'm crawling up a 7% grade at only 10 mph. I take it you have the same attitude towards a farm vehicle because it is slowing you down from getting to wherever you so desperately need to go. Sorry if I'm less than empathetic unless you have bike riders who are being rude. As I said before, you have my full attention and empathy then. They are just like the rude drivers we encounter. And for the sake of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, I'll always remind myself that we are not perfect and though we might try to be perfect law abiding citizens and responsible drivers, there are those days we make a mistake and simply screw up. It allows me to easily forgive someone's transgression. Anyone who knows me, I need all the consideration that I can get. Just ask Sunshine Girl.
I don't have a problem with cyclists on the road. But I do have a problem when they fail to follow established rules and laws. Saw a guy last year in downtown Denver on 8th street that was swerving in and out of cars at a stop light to get through the light and almost was t-boned because he didn't think the red light applied to him.
Saw a guy on a bike going south at the bottom of Hoosier Pass coming around a blind curve and the SUV passing him was all the way in my lane...had to brake and swerve almost off the road to avoid hitting him head-on. I believe these types of roads--narrow, curvy, not a lot of shoulder, and dangerous for motorized vehicles let alone anyone else--should be off-limits to cyclists. Had I been in an accident, whose fault would it have been? The SUV passing the cyclist, according to the rules of the road in Colorado was in the right, but then again so was I being in my lane and so was the cyclist.
Rockdoc Franz wrote: If licensing happened and even if all riders rode single file and obeyed every rule of the road, I'm sure many anti-bike riders on roads will find something else to bitch about. Just saying. Oh yes, the spandex would be enough to set some off.
No, other than you should utilize EVERY OTHER area to ride your bike versus the road, and if "you're riding your bike from point A to ("the trail") point B," load it in the car and get there without causing disruption on the road. Nope, I'd feel quite a bit better at first if bicyclists would start paying towards the roads like the rest of us, and then we can go from there.
Also, motorcycles cause lots of damage cause they spit gravel? People, how much does a motorcycle weigh compared to a car? A Harley Davidson XL on average can be up to about five hundred sixty pounds. !!!!!!!!!!...My little Yota pickup weighs about 1400 without the sandbags in the bed. BIG difference. I say my truck does more damage, however myself AND the motorcycle still pay licensing/registration. Getting out of it is more and more loony as us and the motorcycles are paying more and more and more while the cyclists don't pay a damn thing.
Rockdoc Franz wrote: If licensing happened and even if all riders rode single file and obeyed every rule of the road, I'm sure many anti-bike riders on roads will find something else to bitch about. Just saying. Oh yes, the spandex would be enough to set some off.
No, other than you should utilize EVERY OTHER area to ride your bike versus the road, and if "you're riding your bike from point A to ("the trail") point B," load it in the car and get there without causing disruption on the road. Nope, I'd feel quite a bit better at first if bicyclists would start paying towards the roads like the rest of us, and then we can go from there.
Also, motorcycles cause lots of damage cause they spit gravel? People, how much does a motorcycle weigh compared to a car? A Harley Davidson XL on average can be up to about five hundred sixty pounds. !!!!!!!!!!...My little Yota pickup weighs about 1400 without the sandbags in the bed. BIG difference. I say my truck does more damage, however myself AND the motorcycle still pay licensing/registration. Getting out of it is more and more loony as us and the motorcycles are paying more and more and more while the cyclists don't pay a damn thing.
That is your assertion. You have a problem with bike riders on the road that you obviously own and are unwilling to share. it's your attitude of entitlement that brings about the rage. Perhaps with the exception of kids not old enough to drive or own a vehicle, we cyclists also pay for road use at the same rates you do. You may not like to hear it, but we leave a car or truck behind while electing to ride our bike. I'm certain we can afford the cost of registration and licensing if that makes you feel better. Unfortunately, I'm virtually positive given your attitude you'd still have a hissy fit and find some other reason to come down on cyclists. They are too slow, too hard to see, bike has the wrong color, the rider is wearing the wrong kind of clothes, etc.
And since you brought it up. You have a bike that weighs about 500 lbs give or take a few. It is about 1/3 of the wight of your truck. Most cycles weigh less than 20 lbs. (as I said mine is 10 lbs) That is only 1/70th of the wight of your truck. So if your truck does more damage than your motorcycle, then it only stand to reason that my bike at 10 lbs does no more than 1/5 of the damage of a motorcycle. Again, it is a stupid argument and has little to do with anything other than seeking justification for an attitude.
I'm fully aware I'm not going to change anyone's preconceive notions or attitude. I do want to point out to those of you who lump all bicyclist together under vermin to be expunged from the roads because they belong solely to motorized vehicles, that you have a fundamental attitude problem, just like I would have if I were to claim that all drivers or riders of motorcycles are lazy, fat farts with a feeling of entitlement.
ComputerBreath wrote: I don't have a problem with cyclists on the road. But I do have a problem when they fail to follow established rules and laws. Saw a guy last year in downtown Denver on 8th street that was swerving in and out of cars at a stop light to get through the light and almost was t-boned because he didn't think the red light applied to him.
Saw a guy on a bike going south at the bottom of Hoosier Pass coming around a blind curve and the SUV passing him was all the way in my lane...had to brake and swerve almost off the road to avoid hitting him head-on. I believe these types of roads--narrow, curvy, not a lot of shoulder, and dangerous for motorized vehicles let alone anyone else--should be off-limits to cyclists. Had I been in an accident, whose fault would it have been? The SUV passing the cyclist, according to the rules of the road in Colorado was in the right, but then again so was I being in my lane and so was the cyclist.
Shall we get into a pissing match about the law-breaking maneuvers that people do in cars vs. bicycles? It serves no purpose other than to establish that both groups are guilty of such infractions.
Having said that, I'd say the SUV was not passing legally. Who is stupid enough to pass on a blind curve? I've seen it too many times before. The same people who will do this are also the ones who pass me going down a mountain road while I'm driving the speed limit and that is just too slow for them. A cyclist coming down a road like that generally is at or close to the legal speed limit. Yes, got to have life in the fast lane, not because it's an emergency, but because of some other stupid reason, one likely similar to my line of reasoning when I was young and stupid with a penchant for driving as fast as I could and still remain on the road.
Rockdoc Franz wrote: Obviously the focus is on bike riders being slow going up hill. Given the above statues you cite, is it not also true that any farm vehicle or heavy equipment (not working on the road but simple moving from point A to also goes too slowly as their maximum speed is between 20-30 mph? If you want to play games by hiding behind regulations to justify an attitude, you can. Certainly, you can gig me if I'm crawling up a 7% grade at only 10 mph. I take it you have the same attitude towards a farm vehicle because it is slowing you down from getting to wherever you so desperately need to go. Sorry if I'm less than empathetic unless you have bike riders who are being rude. As I said before, you have my full attention and empathy then. They are just like the rude drivers we encounter. And for the sake of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, I'll always remind myself that we are not perfect and though we might try to be perfect law abiding citizens and responsible drivers, there are those days we make a mistake and simply screw up. It allows me to easily forgive someone's transgression. Anyone who knows me, I need all the consideration that I can get. Just ask Sunshine Girl.
I expect farm vehicles to use turnouts when they get cars stacked up behind them. I also expect bikes to have enough consideration to get out of the way if they have cars stacked up as well. I have seen 5 cars stacked up behind a bike because the road is too curvy to pass him safely. That's time for the cyclist (or the line of cyclists) to step off the side of the road until traffic clears. I have yet to see a cyclist do that. They just keep on huffin up the hill trailing cars behind them.
I have no problem with considerate cyclists. they stay to the right, I pass them with 3' clearance, no problem.
"Whatever you are, be a good one." ~ Abraham Lincoln
Rockdoc Franz wrote: ...just like I would have if I were to claim that all drivers or riders of motorcycles are lazy, fat farts with a feeling of entitlement.
well, actually I think we can all agree on that last point.
"Whatever you are, be a good one." ~ Abraham Lincoln
Rockdoc Franz wrote: And since you brought it up. You have a bike that weighs about 500 lbs give or take a few. It is about 1/3 of the wight of your truck. Most cycles weigh less than 20 lbs. (as I said mine is 10 lbs) That is only 1/70th of the wight of your truck. So if your truck does more damage than your motorcycle, then it only stand to reason that my bike at 10 lbs does no more than 1/5 of the damage of a motorcycle. Again, it is a stupid argument and has little to do with anything other than seeking justification for an attitude.
I'm fully aware I'm not going to change anyone's preconceive notions or attitude. I do want to point out to those of you who lump all bicyclist together under vermin to be expunged from the roads because they belong solely to motorized vehicles, that you have a fundamental attitude problem with a feeling of entitlement.
We can establish that you're a bicyclist. I think the one with entitlement problems is in fact you pal. Like I said in an earlier post, what do you suppose all the black top was created for? Okay, so bicycles were included in that equation, then why not pay the licensing/registration for your cycle? Course, you DID say that you would if they passed such a law, but I highly doubt you would vote yes on such a measure. So lets move on. I said that my motorcycle causes a helluva lot less damage than my truck. I would like to say that my motorcycle doesn't cause ANY damage in comparison to "four-wheelers" but that would be ignorant. However, you being on the road, no matter how much of an angel you are with rules, is a complete and total hazard, uphill and down. Period. Wah wah wah all you want, you're a hazard to everyone, including yourself. Put the damn thing in a vehicle and go somewhere off the main roads. You can also talk about how going 55 mph around you is so detrimental, but that probably seems pretty fast when you're only doing fifteen. On and on and on we go. I'm not the one entitled here, you are. I pay for the roads on ALL my vehicles, YOU don't. You feel that since your bike doesn't do any damage, and that your just out having fun and getting exercise, and you already pay licensing/registration on a "four-wheeler", that you're entitled to a safe and peachy ride at your leisure (of course being a saint with all the rules) on our dangerous mountain roads. Got it.
Edit: BTW, although you can't see or hear me I am in fact pretty calm. Also, this is an online forum, so it's not like I'll have a meltdown and go out and run through a crosswalk full of old ladies. Sheesh. lol
also goes too slowly as their maximum speed is between 20-30 mph? If you want to play games by hiding behind regulations to justify an attitude, you can. Certainly, you can gig me if I'm crawling up a 7% grade at only 10 mph. I take it you have the same attitude towards a farm vehicle because it is slowing you down from getting to wherever you so desperately need to go. Sorry if I'm less than empathetic unless you have bike riders who are being rude. As I said before, you have my full attention and empathy then. They are just like the rude drivers we encounter. And for the sake of giving someone the benefit of the doubt, I'll always remind myself that we are not perfect and though we might try to be perfect law abiding citizens and responsible drivers, there are those days we make a mistake and simply screw up. It allows me to easily forgive someone's transgression. Anyone who knows me, I need all the consideration that I can get. Just ask Sunshine Girl.
