3 bad things happened today

02 Aug 2011 03:21 #21 by ScienceChic

Local_Historian wrote: Time to take a good look at the actual history of the 1930s depression. People were still buying cars and homes and jewelry while others were losing their homes and becoming homeless. Movie theaters were MORE crowded during the depression because they were a cheap fantasy escape, which is why many of the movies are very lush, very fantastical for that time period. Color movies were presented to the public. Disney did his best and most popular work in the 1930s. (Does this seem familiar? What are the popular movies of the year so far- that's right, the big production value, dramatic, all kinds of stuff going on movies. And not just this year either - last year as well.)

People have this misconception that EVERYONE was soooo poor and scraping to get by - very far from the truth, and the perception you are operating on now. Denver was a kickin place in the 1930s. Look in the newspapers, check the ads. Check the society pages.

However, all most people were taught in school was about Hoovervilles, and the dust bowl, and Grapes of Wrath. Yep, that was the state of being for a whole lot of people. but not, by far, all people.

This perception is what the government is banking on us relying upon - that we'll go- oh, but not everyone is living in their vans down by the river, so there must not be a depression.

Wrong.

EXACT same patterns of behavior are happening now that happened then. The exceptions are of course - no drought - we've had a surplus of rain and heat in the midwest; the right recipe for very lush, possibly even bumper crops come harvest this year. The other exception? Mass world communication. Everyone knows our problems as a nation, often before its citizens do. We've had a president call for works programs - wait, does this sound familiar? Didn't Obama use almost the exact same words? Calls for all of us to tighten our belts. Calls for the creation of more jobs. Many many speeches designed to calm the worries of the average man.

Seriously, stop looking at popular history and look at real history - there IS a difference.

But don't take my word for it - ask a college professor who specializes in 20th century American history. Because clearly they're going to know more than a former high school teacher who specialized in the same, just has one less piece of paper to show for it. Yes, that was sarcasm.

I agree with you on all parts except for the part I highlighted in blue. Yes, some regions are receiving great rainfall, but comprehensively the pattern is moving toward dryness.
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/e ... ought.html
NOAA's Seasonal Drought Outlook


http://www.sciencemag.org/content/316/5828/1181.full
Model Projections of an Imminent Transition to a More Arid Climate in Southwestern North America
Richard Seager1,*, Mingfang Ting1, Isaac Held2,3, Yochanan Kushnir1, Jian Lu4, Gabriel Vecchi2, Huei-Ping Huang1, Nili Harnik5, Ants Leetmaa2, Ngar-Cheung Lau2,3, Cuihua Li1, Jennifer Velez1 and Naomi Naik1
Science 25 May 2007:
Vol. 316 no. 5828 pp. 1181-1184
DOI: 10.1126/science.1139601

Here we show that there is a broad consensus among climate models that this region will dry in the 21st century and that the transition to a more arid climate should already be under way. If these models are correct, the levels of aridity of the recent multiyear drought or the Dust Bowl and the 1950s droughts will become the new climatology of the American Southwest within a time frame of years to decades.


(Ignore the inflammatory rhetoric in these stories and focus on the data please)
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/05/2 ... owl-wheat/
West Texas sees worst drought since Dust Bowl
By Joe Romm on May 26, 2011

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/07/0 ... ust-storm/
NBC: “The Dust Storm that Swallowed Up an American City”
By Joe Romm on Jul 6, 2011

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/04/0 ... southwest/
USGS on Dust-Bowlification: Drier conditions projected to accelerate dust storms in the U.S. Southwest
By Joe Romm on Apr 7, 2011

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... d51ac3.4b1
Central China drought 'worst in over 50 years'
(AFP) – May 24, 2011

http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/02/0 ... mon-lewis/
Science: Second ’100-year’ Amazon drought in 5 years caused huge CO2 emissions. If this pattern continues, the forest would become a warming source.
By Joe Romm on Feb 8, 2011

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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02 Aug 2011 08:18 #22 by The Viking
A forth bad thing just hit our economy today. Consumer spending dropped for the first time in over 2 years. Everything is starting to go backwards except our debt, and spending.

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02 Aug 2011 08:50 #23 by mtntrekker
I've been to the mall and have seen some people buying stuff but if you talk to some of the sales people, sales are down. And just look around the mall at the number of shops that have closed.

LH says it right, it is a depression, not a double dip recession.

bumper sticker - honk if you will pay my mortgage

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." attributed to Margaret Thatcher

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson

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02 Aug 2011 08:57 #24 by The Viking

mtntrekker wrote: I've been to the mall and have seen some people buying stuff but if you talk to some of the sales people, sales are down. And just look around the mall at the number of shops that have closed.

LH says it right, it is a depression, not a double dip recession.


Actually I am trying to figure out who said we were ever out of the recession? We only had two decent quarters in the last 2 years and then right back downhill and fast.

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02 Aug 2011 09:28 #25 by The Viking
Whoops another bad sign for our economy today. We have stalled to say the least but most every sign has us going back into a Recession.


Incomes grew by the smallest amount in nine months, a troubling sign for an economy that is barely growing. Incomes rose 0.1 percent, the weakest growth since September.

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02 Aug 2011 09:46 #26 by Local_Historian

Science Chic wrote: .

I agree with you on all parts except for the part I highlighted in blue. [/quote]

OK - I'll give on that point - I should have said no drought in the midwest, in the major food growing areas. Oklahome and Texas may produce some crops, and definitely some livestock, but the major sources are Nebraska and Iowa and Illinois - and talking to people back there, it's been a wet, hot humid year. Perfect corn weather, and now if it starts to dry out, perfect grain weather as well.

We don't need Texas anyhow - lol !

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02 Aug 2011 10:03 #27 by AspenValley

Local_Historian wrote: Archer - my dad's been talking to my 94 year old grandpa and his 92 year old brother. Interesting, since they say this is EXACTLY what the depression looked like -again, barring the drought.

They were all teenagers together during that time - grandpa apparently remembers it vividly. Perhaps being different parts of the country, different lifestyles (thought probably similar economic status), they will have different points of view. Not to be sexist, but the women also saw it different than the men did - that was clear to me by the things my grandma used to say.

I already do a great number of things my grandmother taught me - things she did during the depression. (She got married in 1933 to my other gramps) All to save money, be frugal, make things last longer. I do, however, draw the line are reseaming sheets. I slept on those enough as a kid - I hate em. I just "repurpose" the sheet, to use the modern (bullhonkey) term.


Thanks for both of your posts on this, very informative. I am reading a book right now called "The Worst Hard Time - The Untold Story of Those Who Survived the Great American Dust Bowl" and it is a real eye opener. The book came out in 2005, which was before all the Lehman Brothers/AIG crash stuff so it is eerie to read some of the similar situations that happened during the depression. For instance, I did not know that so many banks folded back then because the owners speculated in crap securites that sound suspiciously like the stuff that brought down Lehman.

But the Great Depression looked a lot different to people depending on where they lived and what their social status was. Both of my parents were children during the Depression but they "saw" it in totally different terms. My mother was the daughter of a prosperous businessman who prospered right through the Depression. There were new cars, new clothes, annual vacations and private school in her family. On the other hand, my father was the youngest of six boys. His father died when he was only one year old, leaving my grandmother a penniless widow. They had to go on "relief", lived in a tenement, wore hand-me-down clothes and struggled badly. My grandmother got cervical cancer when my dad was only 8 years old and died of it because there was no money for treatment and no health insurance. My dad was raised by his older brothers and the story of how they kept the family together through the Depression is so harrowing my dad could never talk about it without choking up.

So even in the Great Depression, with some families it was "business as usual" and for others it was a living hell. I think the same thing is going on today, only we are all so distracted between political "theater" like this stupid deficit debacle and reality TV that we don't realize it. I wonder if this time and generation will ever have a Steinbeck to make us realize what is happening outside of "Dancing with the Stars"?

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02 Aug 2011 10:06 #28 by AspenValley

Local_Historian wrote: [ the major sources are Nebraska and Iowa and Illinois - and talking to people back there, it's been a wet, hot humid year. Perfect corn weather, and now if it starts to dry out, perfect grain weather as well.


True, but a lot of those areas had epic flooding this spring and early summer and couldn't get crops in the ground on time to make a full crop.

And it's really bad in places like Texas. We have rancher friends there who say a lot of ranchers are sending their horses and even their breeding stock cattle to auction because there is no hay to feed them and no green grass.

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