To put our debt in real numbers....

If the US Government was a family, they would be earning $58,000 a year, spending $75,000 a year, and would have $327,000 in credit card debt. They have just decided to implement budget cuts to reduce their spending … to $72,000 a year.
- Dave Ramsey (courtesy of Investors.com)


So we are still spending almost 25% more than what we are bringing it. And we each have a personal debt that is almost 6 times more than we make in a year. We will never be able to pay off our $327,000 debt if we are still adding to it $14,000 each year. Looking at these numbers, I am not sure how we will ever be able to pay off our debt or even stop adding to it, unless we stop the spending.

Stopping spending would not pay off the debt, anymore than having your credit cards revoked while you are $327,000 in hock to them will pay it off.

We can either:

1. Raise taxes.
2. Inflate our currency to the point where the debt becomes small enough in real dollars to get a handle on.
3. Default.

That is the reality. All the wishing and hoping and Voodoo Economics that let people believe they could cut taxes at the same time they are increasing spending is what got us here, not what will get us out of it.

All three alternatives involve pain, which is why few people are willing to do what it takes to actually get rid of the debt. The debt is a symptom of the problem (believing you can have your cake and eat it too) not the cause as some would have you believe.

AspenValley wrote: Stopping spending would not pay off the debt, anymore than having your credit cards revoked while you are $327,000 in hock to them will pay it off.

We can either:

1. Raise taxes.
2. Inflate our currency to the point where the debt becomes small enough in real dollars to get a handle on.
3. Default.

That is the reality. All the wishing and hoping and Voodoo Economics that let people believe they could cut taxes at the same time they are increasing spending is what got us here, not what will get us out of it.

All three alternatives involve pain, which is why few people are willing to do what it takes to actually get rid of the debt. The debt is a symptom of the problem (believing you can have your cake and eat it too) not the cause as some would have you believe.

How much will raising taxes raise our revenue. You guys are obsesed with that idea so I guess you have the numbers?

You do realize that even at the high end if it raises $30 billion per year, by taking the top few percent that is only raising the income in the above scenario by about $100. So now we are up to $58,100. You really think that will help?

The Viking wrote:

AspenValley wrote: Stopping spending would not pay off the debt, anymore than having your credit cards revoked while you are $327,000 in hock to them will pay it off.

We can either:

1. Raise taxes.
2. Inflate our currency to the point where the debt becomes small enough in real dollars to get a handle on.
3. Default.

That is the reality. All the wishing and hoping and Voodoo Economics that let people believe they could cut taxes at the same time they are increasing spending is what got us here, not what will get us out of it.

All three alternatives involve pain, which is why few people are willing to do what it takes to actually get rid of the debt. The debt is a symptom of the problem (believing you can have your cake and eat it too) not the cause as some would have you believe.

How much will raising taxes raise our revenue. You guys are obsesed with that idea so I guess you have the numbers?

Well then let's just bring on that hyperinflation and currency collapse and default, then!

Would it not be nice if we can simply go to our employer and tell him "I want a raise because I owe a lot of money" and force them to do it? That is what raising taxes is about. Any family who is serious about paying off their huge dept, better 1) get the entire family involved in earning more money, 2) cut out everything that is not essential to surviving so you can have some money left to pay off you debts or 3) I stiff my creditors and declare bankruptcy. Being a hard-working honest individual I chose 2 because it is the only option that makes any sense. What I see is that Government does not have to operate by the same economic rules. You just go to your employer and force them to pay you more. I'd say that leads to a certain degree of recklessness in the expenditure front, the very reason we are where we are today.

So there are no easy choices. If you live beyond your means and insist on doing so, it is idiotic. Cutting taxes is not the answer, keeping taxes as they are or even modifying them to eliminate special interests groups but not raising them is appropriate when it goes along with sever cuts. The place to start would be in the political ranks. Cut their salaries and benefits to mortal levels, after all you ask the rest of the country to do the very same thing. That is the reality as I see it, not via an increase in taxation be it via income or taxation on consumer products.

AspenValley wrote:

The Viking wrote:

AspenValley wrote: Stopping spending would not pay off the debt, anymore than having your credit cards revoked while you are $327,000 in hock to them will pay it off.

We can either:

1. Raise taxes.
2. Inflate our currency to the point where the debt becomes small enough in real dollars to get a handle on.
3. Default.

That is the reality. All the wishing and hoping and Voodoo Economics that let people believe they could cut taxes at the same time they are increasing spending is what got us here, not what will get us out of it.

All three alternatives involve pain, which is why few people are willing to do what it takes to actually get rid of the debt. The debt is a symptom of the problem (believing you can have your cake and eat it too) not the cause as some would have you believe.

How much will raising taxes raise our revenue. You guys are obsesed with that idea so I guess you have the numbers?

Well then let's just bring on that hyperinflation and currency collapse and default, then!

How about making deep cuts in everything that is non essential and putting the focus on stimulating our economy... NOT with more regulations, NOT with increased taxes, NOT with more hand outs, BUT with the opposite? Let business breathe life back into the economy rather than choking it to death.

The day of reckoning isn't here yet for the US, we are still selling 10 year treasuries paying off at 2.5%!

But check out what Greek and Ireland are going through. IMF types come in and take control of the budget, cutting here and there and increasing taxes.
Riots are expensive!

Don't we want to get control right now with reasonable tax increases and increasing spending cuts?

SS109 wrote: The day of reckoning isn't here yet for the US, we are still selling 10 year treasuries paying off at 2.5%!

But check out what Greek and Ireland are going through. IMF types come in and take control of the budget, cutting here and there and increasing taxes.
Riots are expensive!

Don't we want to get control right now with reasonable tax increases and increasing spending cuts?

Who are you going to tax that can afford the increase and how will that make a significant impact? I suppose my thought is that if you can reduce unemployment you do realize an increase in revenue, just like when your family goes off an pitches in extra funds to raise the budget. Frankly, while your asking everyone to take cuts (including those on fixed incomes) would it not be best to give them a chance to adjust (if possible) to the new reality? Perhaps after a period of some unspecified time a greater tax burden across the board is possible.

If we continue down the socialistic path of trying to provide the necessities of life for all citizens, we will end up just like Greece. Look at the demands those idiots make. Their government is broke, and they demand their social benefits remain in place? You can't be serious? It seems that is the kind of mentality such programs lead to eventually. If you want to give me 5k every month as a retirement benefit because I'm over 65, why would I reject it? I'd be a fool. Furthermore, we all know that we live at the limits of our income. If we make 25k a year we manage to survive. If its 50k 100k or 200k a year we still manage to survive. It's the definition of survive that gets distorted. Once used to easy living, it is very difficult to scale back, but not impossible. Frankly, I think some would need to be forced into scaling back.

AspenValley wrote:

The Viking wrote:

AspenValley wrote: Stopping spending would not pay off the debt, anymore than having your credit cards revoked while you are $327,000 in hock to them will pay it off.

We can either:

1. Raise taxes.
2. Inflate our currency to the point where the debt becomes small enough in real dollars to get a handle on.
3. Default.

That is the reality. All the wishing and hoping and Voodoo Economics that let people believe they could cut taxes at the same time they are increasing spending is what got us here, not what will get us out of it.

All three alternatives involve pain, which is why few people are willing to do what it takes to actually get rid of the debt. The debt is a symptom of the problem (believing you can have your cake and eat it too) not the cause as some would have you believe.

How much will raising taxes raise our revenue. You guys are obsesed with that idea so I guess you have the numbers?

Well then let's just bring on that hyperinflation and currency collapse and default, then!

That still doesn't answer my question. So many people keep repeating the Dem and Obama's idea of raising taxes, but no one knows why or how much revenue it will raise. Why are you for it if you don't even know what it will do? It is like Pelosi's statement, let's just pass it and see what happens.