Debate presents crucial GOP test

Stay classy, heartless, and keep watching.

Some day you may actually learn how to start a discussion on here.

pineinthegrass wrote: So far as Herman Cain goes, did his "nine, nine, nine" plan sound good to you? He's calling for a flat 9% income tax and a 9% national sales tax (plus a flat 9% business tax). Do you really want both an income tax and a sales tax?

You are paying sales taxes in the here and now already pine - the federal tax on every gallon of gas that you buy, the excise taxes on the tires for your vehicles, the federal taxes on your phones....they are all sales taxes that you are currently paying. You might not think of them as sales taxes, but that is in effect what they are - taxes levied upon your consumption of goods and services.

Lowering the tax rate on businesses is a good thing as well given that a business is a tax collector, not a tax payer. The taxes they "pay" are really nothing more or less than another cost of business that gets marked up and passed along to the consumer of their products just as raw materials, labor and recurring overhead costs are. The consumer is the one paying those taxes, the business simply collects them and passes them along to the federal government, including the 7.65% tax they pay on every dollar of wages they give to their employees. Tax them at a flat rate and you will no longer have a company like GE earning tens if not hundreds of billions in profits without having to pay a single dollar of income tax on those profits because of those awful loopholes exist in the current tax law, right? Of course, you and I will still be paying their 9% tax since every dollar they get comes from you and I to begin with, but hey, who's counting? We'll all feel better thinking to ourselves that those evil oil companies are no longer avoiding paying their fair share of the tax burden in the end.

pineinthegrass wrote: Right now, the middle 20% of earners pay an effective federal income tax of about 6% (after deductions, exemptions, and credits). So Cain wants to increase that by about 50% plus add a 9% sales tax. He also gets rid of the Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes, but I can't find any economic study that says the 9% sales tax would cover both. Anyway, that appears to be a huge tax increase for the mid and lower income people, and a huge tax cut for the higher income people who currently pay and effective federal income tax of about 18% (29% for all federal taxes including payroll).

The federal income tax is in addition to the privilege to be employed taxes that are also withheld from every dollar of income the middle income earners are paying. Currently those taxes are 4.2% for OASDI and 1.45% for Medicare, bringing the total tax on income levied by the federal government to more than the 9% proposed by Cain. That 4.2% includes the recent 2% tax cut. The tax rate under Bush was 6.2% and it will return to that rate unless Congress extends the tax cut.

As far as the sales tax goes, the evil rich folks are spending a lot more money in dollars even if their spending is less as a percentage of their total income. Think of the revenue generated when those evil folks purchase their fancy meals in restaurants, or buy expensive watches, necklaces, purses, earrings, cars, fur coats, hand tailored suits and handmade shoes, designer evening wear, yachts, private jets and all of the other things they spend the money they have stolen from the poor and working class on. If it's a sales tax they won't be able to take advantage of any special interest loopholes to avoid paying their fair share any longer. They will have to pay an additional 9% tax on their consumption just like the rest of us will. What could be more fair than that? They will end up paying a lot more in sales taxes than the average middle income earner because they buy a lot more stuff and spend a lot more per item on that stuff than your typical middle income earner does.

HEARTLESS wrote: Wayne, Kate, LJ, Odumbo needs to answer how many would be unemployed now if the natural disasters weren't kicking our butts and the subsequent reconstruction? 10%, maybe more? We've talked about the Philippines number one export, is that Obama's employment plan? OFWs (Overseas Foreign Workers). A dead carp would stink less than our current leadership. But keep on beating the mainstream media drums.

Was President Obama participating in the debate last night?

PrintSmith wrote:

pineinthegrass wrote: So far as Herman Cain goes, did his "nine, nine, nine" plan sound good to you? He's calling for a flat 9% income tax and a 9% national sales tax (plus a flat 9% business tax). Do you really want both an income tax and a sales tax?

You are paying sales taxes in the here and now already pine - the federal tax on every gallon of gas that you buy, the excise taxes on the tires for your vehicles, the federal taxes on your phones....they are all sales taxes that you are currently paying. You might not think of them as sales taxes, but that is in effect what they are - taxes levied upon your consumption of goods and services.

Lowering the tax rate on businesses is a good thing as well given that a business is a tax collector, not a tax payer. The taxes they "pay" are really nothing more or less than another cost of business that gets marked up and passed along to the consumer of their products just as raw materials, labor and recurring overhead costs are. The consumer is the one paying those taxes, the business simply collects them and passes them along to the federal government, including the 7.65% tax they pay on every dollar of wages they give to their employees. Tax them at a flat rate and you will no longer have a company like GE earning tens if not hundreds of billions in profits without having to pay a single dollar of income tax on those profits because of those awful loopholes exist in the current tax law, right? Of course, you and I will still be paying their 9% tax since every dollar they get comes from you and I to begin with, but hey, who's counting? We'll all feel better thinking to ourselves that those evil oil companies are no longer avoiding paying their fair share of the tax burden in the end.

pineinthegrass wrote: Right now, the middle 20% of earners pay an effective federal income tax of about 6% (after deductions, exemptions, and credits). So Cain wants to increase that by about 50% plus add a 9% sales tax. He also gets rid of the Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes, but I can't find any economic study that says the 9% sales tax would cover both. Anyway, that appears to be a huge tax increase for the mid and lower income people, and a huge tax cut for the higher income people who currently pay and effective federal income tax of about 18% (29% for all federal taxes including payroll).

The federal income tax is in addition to the privilege to be employed taxes that are also withheld from every dollar of income the middle income earners are paying. Currently those taxes are 4.2% for OASDI and 1.45% for Medicare, bringing the total tax on income levied by the federal government to more than the 9% proposed by Cain. That 4.2% includes the recent 2% tax cut. The tax rate under Bush was 6.2% and it will return to that rate unless Congress extends the tax cut.

As far as the sales tax goes, the evil rich folks are spending a lot more money in dollars even if their spending is less as a percentage of their total income. Think of the revenue generated when those evil folks purchase their fancy meals in restaurants, or buy expensive watches, necklaces, purses, earrings, cars, fur coats, hand tailored suits and handmade shoes, designer evening wear, yachts, private jets and all of the other things they spend the money they have stolen from the poor and working class on. If it's a sales tax they won't be able to take advantage of any special interest loopholes to avoid paying their fair share any longer. They will have to pay an additional 9% tax on their consumption just like the rest of us will. What could be more fair than that? They will end up paying a lot more in sales taxes than the average middle income earner because they buy a lot more stuff and spend a lot more per item on that stuff than your typical middle income earner does.

Spoken like a true oligarch.

No Kate, on the occasions that he is in the White House, he is F'in up this country to the best of his ability.

You do know that this thread is a discussion about the Republican debate last night and not about President Obama?

Apparently not....

Kate wrote: You do know that this thread is a discussion about the Republican debate last night and not about President Obama?

Evidently that point is lost on you as well given your proclivity to respond only to remarks that have nothing to do with the content of the debate that was held.

LadyJazzer wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

pineinthegrass wrote: So far as Herman Cain goes, did his "nine, nine, nine" plan sound good to you? He's calling for a flat 9% income tax and a 9% national sales tax (plus a flat 9% business tax). Do you really want both an income tax and a sales tax?

You are paying sales taxes in the here and now already pine - the federal tax on every gallon of gas that you buy, the excise taxes on the tires for your vehicles, the federal taxes on your phones....they are all sales taxes that you are currently paying. You might not think of them as sales taxes, but that is in effect what they are - taxes levied upon your consumption of goods and services.

Lowering the tax rate on businesses is a good thing as well given that a business is a tax collector, not a tax payer. The taxes they "pay" are really nothing more or less than another cost of business that gets marked up and passed along to the consumer of their products just as raw materials, labor and recurring overhead costs are. The consumer is the one paying those taxes, the business simply collects them and passes them along to the federal government, including the 7.65% tax they pay on every dollar of wages they give to their employees. Tax them at a flat rate and you will no longer have a company like GE earning tens if not hundreds of billions in profits without having to pay a single dollar of income tax on those profits because of those awful loopholes exist in the current tax law, right? Of course, you and I will still be paying their 9% tax since every dollar they get comes from you and I to begin with, but hey, who's counting? We'll all feel better thinking to ourselves that those evil oil companies are no longer avoiding paying their fair share of the tax burden in the end.

pineinthegrass wrote: Right now, the middle 20% of earners pay an effective federal income tax of about 6% (after deductions, exemptions, and credits). So Cain wants to increase that by about 50% plus add a 9% sales tax. He also gets rid of the Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes, but I can't find any economic study that says the 9% sales tax would cover both. Anyway, that appears to be a huge tax increase for the mid and lower income people, and a huge tax cut for the higher income people who currently pay and effective federal income tax of about 18% (29% for all federal taxes including payroll).

The federal income tax is in addition to the privilege to be employed taxes that are also withheld from every dollar of income the middle income earners are paying. Currently those taxes are 4.2% for OASDI and 1.45% for Medicare, bringing the total tax on income levied by the federal government to more than the 9% proposed by Cain. That 4.2% includes the recent 2% tax cut. The tax rate under Bush was 6.2% and it will return to that rate unless Congress extends the tax cut.

As far as the sales tax goes, the evil rich folks are spending a lot more money in dollars even if their spending is less as a percentage of their total income. Think of the revenue generated when those evil folks purchase their fancy meals in restaurants, or buy expensive watches, necklaces, purses, earrings, cars, fur coats, hand tailored suits and handmade shoes, designer evening wear, yachts, private jets and all of the other things they spend the money they have stolen from the poor and working class on. If it's a sales tax they won't be able to take advantage of any special interest loopholes to avoid paying their fair share any longer. They will have to pay an additional 9% tax on their consumption just like the rest of us will. What could be more fair than that? They will end up paying a lot more in sales taxes than the average middle income earner because they buy a lot more stuff and spend a lot more per item on that stuff than your typical middle income earner does.

Spoken like a true oligarch.

Right out of the worn out playbook of the regressives. Fail to address what is being said and focus instead upon the person saying them.

The word 'oligarch' addresses what was said as succinctly as it is possible to do.

Engaging in any sort of debate, when it's nothing more than an empty exercise in twisting the facts and flatulent regurgitation of your Sovereign Citizen / Federalist / Original Intent / Constitution-worship bullsh*t, is not worth the bandwidth...