No High School Diploma or GED, No Unemployment Benefits?

PrintSmith wrote: And I think that, while receiving the "benefits" of the entitlement program, they should get that help and assistance so that they do learn to read, write and figure well enough to understand ballot initiatives, fill out applications, write resumes and balance their checkbooks. I would completely support a program which required one without a diploma or GED to enroll and work towards that goal while receiving their charity stipend from the societal safety nets. Not helping such poor souls better their situation pretty much dooms them to a lifetime of very limited opportunities. We can't have that in our union now, can we? Not and call ourselves an advanced society at least.

I knew one engineer who had a 6th grade education. He was not unambitious nor stupid. I currently know one senior engineer who does not have any college training.
These men were not in need of your concern about "help and assistance". You are sounding like a bigot.

Don't know how old you are Arlen, but the days where a high percentage of the population finished only a primary education are a good ways behind us. I was also acquainted with a few such people, but most of them would be receiving Social Security right about now. Certainly their children, folk 50 years of age and younger, were required by public laws to attend school at least until they turned 16. Yes, some did drop out to support the family they started one Friday night in the backseat of their parent's cars, but they are not the ones who lack the intelligence - AV's major argument against the proposal - to successfully acquire a GED. We also understand many learning disorders a lot better now than we did when folks my age were attending primary schools. As I said, at minimum one who possess neither a HS diploma or a GED should be required to work towards achieving that goal while they are recipients of the public's charity and looking for employment. It's in their own best interests, as well as the best interests of our society, for them to complete the process. Who knows - it might even rekindle a desire to achieve an education well beyond the minimum one and they could end up with a much better life than they otherwise might have had.

Arlen wrote:

PrintSmith wrote: And I think that, while receiving the "benefits" of the entitlement program, they should get that help and assistance so that they do learn to read, write and figure well enough to understand ballot initiatives, fill out applications, write resumes and balance their checkbooks. I would completely support a program which required one without a diploma or GED to enroll and work towards that goal while receiving their charity stipend from the societal safety nets. Not helping such poor souls better their situation pretty much dooms them to a lifetime of very limited opportunities. We can't have that in our union now, can we? Not and call ourselves an advanced society at least.

I knew one engineer who had a 6th grade education. He was not unambitious nor stupid. I currently know one senior engineer who does not have any college training.
These men were not in need of your concern about "help and assistance". You are sounding like a bigot.

These men were not in the class of those who lacked the intelligence to obtain either a HS diploma or a GED, which was the original argument levied by AV. Since they fail to qualify as lacking the necessary intelligence, and could quite easily pick up the GED exam and pass it if such a requirement were to become necessary to obtain their unemployment benefits, no purpose is served by forwarding this argument. We are talking of those AV alleges incapable of that accomplishment, which would not include those in your anecdotal references.

PrintSmith wrote: And I think that, while receiving the "benefits" of the entitlement program, they should get that help and assistance so that they do learn to read, write and figure well enough to understand ballot initiatives, fill out applications, write resumes and balance their checkbooks. I would completely support a program which required one without a diploma or GED to enroll and work towards that goal while receiving their charity stipend from the societal safety nets. Not helping such poor souls better their situation pretty much dooms them to a lifetime of very limited opportunities. We can't have that in our union now, can we? Not and call ourselves an advanced society at least.

It's obvious you don't know the first thing about people with mental limitations. It's not just a matter of "getting them a little help" or them "making a little more effort". One quarter of the adult population (ONE QUARTER!) have IQs below 90, most with IQs between 70 and 90. These are not ranges considered to be mentally retarded. Yet educational expectations for children in these ranges after 12 years of education is generally considered to be achivement of mastery at somewhere between the fourth grade and eighth or ninth grade level. With intensive intervention, a grade level or two higher. In other words, not levels high enough to graduate from high school for the majority of this population.

That is the reality, PS. Your ideology may not want to allow that there are people who simply are not capable of jumping through all the hoops you are trying to put between them and surviving at all in this society. You may think it is only "reasonable" to require everyone to meet some minimum standard of education iin order to bother 'wasting' your tax money paying them unemployment benefits like everyone else. But it is NOT reasonable, it is ignorant, and it is cruel, and it denies the reality that there are millions of people out there who are capable of working and even supporting families, but are NOT capable of meeting arbitrary educational standards you feel entitled to require of them before being deemed worthy enough of your "charity."

Someone with a maximum potential equivalent to that of a fourth grader should be receiving more assistance than simply unemployment benefits, wouldn't you agree? A requirement such as the one being proposed would help identify such people and help them get that additional assistance, wouldn't it?

PrintSmith wrote: Someone with a maximum potential equivalent to that of a fourth grader should be receiving more assistance than simply unemployment benefits, wouldn't you agree? A requirement such as the one being proposed would help identify such people and help them get that additional assistance, wouldn't it?

Yeah, I agree they should. Why don't you show me that program, PS?

I've got news for you. Anyone with an IQ over 69 is no more entitled to benefits from the government than you or I are. If we have to support ourselves independently, so do they. Even if they only have a maximum potential academic achievement of a fourth grader. Reality is a bitch, isn't it?

:pop

I'll admit it AV, I'm not an expert on federal government charity programs the way you are. Perhaps, just perhaps mind you, if there weren't so many of them around for people who had the potential these poor souls lack there might be one or two around for these poor souls. One more reason why the diploma/GED requirement is a good idea in my mind. It'll get the ones incapable of better identified so that we at least have a better idea of how many are in need of additional assistance to maximize their learning potential and give them the tools necessary to navigate an increasingly complex world they are utterly incapable of navigating on their own.