Repeal it now

So, LLIB, do you think Bush's statement that they had "proof of WMD's" in Iraq made any sense at all when he knew it was a lie?

I guess starting an unnecessary, unpaid-for war was a case of the "win" being all that mattered...

LadyJazzer wrote: So, LLIB, do you think Bush's statement that they had "proof of WMD's" in Iraq made any sense at all when he knew it was a lie?

I guess starting an unnecessary, unpaid-for war was a case of the "win" being all that mattered...

Here we go with the Queen of Tu Quoque Fallacy. What does Bush and WMD's have to do with the topic of ObamaCare? Oh nothing, I just thought I would try to deflect the conversation by whining "they did it too!"...

LLIB wrote: [youtube:3vzat0nz]

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This one never gets old...we are just suppose to swallow and find out what the side effects are later. How does this nut keep getting elected?

The righties always like to drag this one out. I took those words in another way as there were soo many distortions and falsehoods at the time regarding the bill (death panels, etc.)

In essence it means "once the bill passes you'll see what it actually does rather than only hearing lies about what it might do". There is also the fact that at any given time the proposed bill could have been changed by amendments. Heck, it changed slightly after it was passed the first time.
Just my opinion of course. I'd say not to repeal and yes to tweaking it a bit.

Have a good weekend and GO DONCOS!!

LadyJazzer wrote: So, LLIB, do you think Bush's statement that they had "proof of WMD's" in Iraq made any sense at all when he knew it was a lie?

I guess starting an unnecessary, unpaid-for war was a case of the "win" being all that mattered...

Will you admit that all the Dems like the Clintons were also liars when they said Saddam had wmd? Do you need the video proof? It was nice deflection from the actual topic , as usual, but it's still your OPINION and not the fact that Bush "lied". Just like Obama, Bush had to rely on the intel he was given. And the FACT is, Saddam did have and did use wmd on his own people, but it's easy for you to ignore that fact as well.

When you get the actual proof that Bush lied, please share it and then explain why your heros thought the same thing.

If a repeal effort is activated now it will fail. The Senate is controlled by the Democrats.
A failed effort will greatly weaken a second repeal effort after the Republicans gain control of both House and Senate. This is a very poorly thought out idea. Or it may be a well thought out tactic of the supporters of Obamacare.

US intelligence report shows war drive against Iran based on lies
by Bill Van Auken
Global Research, December 5, 2007

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=7553


IRAQ - A WAR BASED ON LIES
http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=371

SOURCES:

BBC News, "Iraq verdict fills papers", 8 July 2003.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3053438.stm ]

BBC News, "White House 'warned over Iraq claim'", 9 July 2003.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3056626.stm ]

BBC News, "Bush under fire over Iraq claims", 9 July 2003.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3051963.stm ]

BBC News, "CIA 'cleared' Iraq uranium claim", 11 July 2003.
[ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 058809.stm ]

FURTHER READING:

The Debate - "Iraq War Motives"
[ [url=http://www.thedebate.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]http://www.thedebate.org[/url] ]

Diplomat's suppressed document lays bare the lies behind Iraq war
By Colin Brown and Andy McSmith
Friday, 15 December 2006

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 28545.html



http://www.countercurrents.org/iraq-vann061003.htm



http://www.bushwatch.org/bushlies.htm

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Eric_E_Johansson_President_San_Francisco_Veterans_ for_Peace_Chapter_69:

KAY’S CLEVERNESS: THE TRUTH BUT NOT THE WHOLE TRUTH ABOUT BUSH’S LIES

Do you understand the cleverness of behind the report by David Kay, a Bush appointee in charge of hunting for the absent Weapons of Mass Destruction that he confirmed didn't exist in Iraq which was Mr. Bush's stated reason (now exposed as lies) to take this nation to war? What Mr. Kay did was quite clever but some of his conclusions were also clearly misleading.

Mr. Kay’s report revealed that no Weapons of Mass Destruction could be found in Iraq and that there likely were none since the U.N., inspectors like Scott Ritter and the CIA all did their jobs correctly in the disarming process that occurred during the 1990’s. This fact was revealed by many writers prior to the war although they were ignored as Bush lied the country into supporting an unnecessary, unjust and immoral war that claimed thousands of lives and now over 525 American troops for nothing, nothing except for perhaps the 63% earnings increase at Halliburton or the 93% earnings increase at Chevron/Texaco.

By telling the truth, Mr. Kay had hoped to establish some measure of credibility and honesty that his word and his report to Congress were both rooted in integrity. Certainly, when he told the truth about the lack of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq that did give him some measure of credibility, however, then he pointed his finger at U.S. intelligence (the CIA) as the culprit by faulting their intelligence gathering capability. In making such an accusation what Mr. Kay has tried to do is use the credibility he has earned by telling the truth about the lack of WMD to make a case for implicating intelligence agencies for the excuse Bush used to go to war. And this is how the Kay report is clever and partially honest but also clearly misleading and partially deceitful: The intelligence was not bad intelligence, it was cooked intelligence, cooked to support a decision to go to war that had already been made. This intelligence was cooked because of the pressure exerted by Vice President Dick Cheney as he periodically made visits to apply pressure upon mid-level analysts at CIA headquarters, demanding that they produce evidence, no matter how weak, that would support his decision to wage an unnecessary, unjust and immoral war that in the end killed thousands, our own troops and left us in a deepening quagmire of President Bush’s own making.

The cleverness of the David Kay is clear: He is using the credibility that he earned by telling the truth contained within the findings of his report, he is using that measure of credibility to implicate the CIA for their mistaken evidence which was cooked by the Vice President to drum up support for the war in the first place. Thus, ultimately no blame should be assigned to those mid-level personnel or any intelligence apparatus or agency who came under enormous pressure to cook up intelligence to build support for the war as per the Vice President office, an extension of President Bush’s office.

Where should blame be placed? First upon the shoulders of President Bush for allowing the Vice President to act in such an unethical, dictatorial and ruthless manner that led to the needless deaths of a lot of people, many of them American soldiers. Second, upon the shoulders of President Bush for then using such obvious cooked intelligence to drum up support for a war based on the obvious lies he told the American people almost daily. Third, blame should also be placed squarely on the shoulders on CIA Director George Tenet for allowing such behavior by the Vice-President at his agency and for allowing outright lies to be told to the American people without even having even a morsel of moral courage to come forward and reveal the inner acts of betrayal and treason being committed by President Bush or Vice President Cheney. By not coming forward and by allowing such behavior to go unchecked, Director George Tenet betrayed the CIA, he betrayed the integrity of U.S. intelligence and he betrayed the troops who would later die, and he betrayed the American people. His political head should nowadays be served upon a platter. Also at fault is the entire senior management team at the CIA for the very same reasons that their Director is at fault. By not coming forward and by allowing such behavior to go unchecked, I consider every senior manager at the CIA to be a modern-day Benedict Arnold, traitors to America, traitors to the troops and traitors to the American people. I do not fault the CIA but I do clearly fault their management, the Directorship, and above all the President of the United States George W. Bush for his lies, manipulations and betrayal that sent good troops to their graves for nothing but the greed of money, power and domination. You are all cowardly insignificant yellow-belly traitors as far as I’m concerned.

Now, as President Bush appoints and tries to bury the truth by selecting members of his Whitewash Commission to conceal his lies and betrayal to the troops, to America and to the American people, I have but one question for you Mr. Bush, how does it feel to be exposed as the low, cowardly, yellow-belly, misleading, war-mongering, mass-murdering, troops-murdering lying piece of human [fecal material] that you are, sir?

Your needless war which is now sinking-into-a-bloody-civil-war-occupation of Iraq is becoming costly isn’t it sir? It has been transformed from a political asset in a political liability, hasn’t it Mr. Bush?
I have only two words for you Bush: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!!!! Now eat it.

Long-term implications: Good-bye military industrial complex, you're outta here!!!!!!

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74. 'Statement by David Kay on the Interim Progress Report on the Activities of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) Before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, The House Committee on Appropriations, Subcommittee on Defense, and the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence', October 2, 2003, http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/s ... 22003.html .

75. "Newsmaker: David Kay," News Hour with Jim Lehrer, PBS TV, October 2, 2003, http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_e ... 10-02.html .

76. Michael R. Gordon, "Weapons Of Mass Confusion," New York Times on the Web, August 1, 2003. See also Associated Press "Air Force Assessment Before War Said Iraqi Drones Were Minor Threat: U.S. arms experts in Iraq came to same conclusion," Baltimore Sun, August 25, 2003; David Rogers, "Air Force Doubts Drone Threat: Report Says Bush Exaggerated Perils of Unmanned Iraqi Aircraft," Wall Street Journal, September 10, 2003; Joseph Cirincione and Alexis Orton, "The Air Force Dissents," Carnegie Analysis, September 11, 2003, http://www.ceip.org/files/nonprolif/tem ... wsID=5346; Bradley Graham, "Air Force Analysts Feel Vindicated On Iraqi Drones," Washington Post, September 26, 2003, p. 23.

77. Walter Pincus, "Intelligence Report For Iraq War Was 'Hastily Done'," Washington Post, October 24, 2003, p. 18.

78. Thomas Patrick Carroll, "The Intelligence on Iraq's WMD," Middle East Intelligence Bulletin, Vol. 5, No. 11, November 2003, http://www.meib.org/articles/0311_iraq1.htm .

79. William M. Arkin, "A Thin Basis For War," Los Angeles Times, July 27, 2003.

80. Jay Taylor, "When Intelligence Reports Become Political Tools . . .," Washington Post, June 29, 2003, p. B2.

84. New York Times, James Risen and Douglas Jehl, "Expert Said to Tell Legislators He Was Pressed to Distort Some Evidence," June 25, 2003.

85. Jason Vest, "The 'Intelligence' Game," The Nation, June 30, 2003, http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030630&s=vest . See also John Prados, "Iraq: A necessary war?" Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, May/June 2003, Vol. 59, No. 3, pp. 26-33, http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/2003/ ... rados.html .

86. Mark Hosenball, Michael Isikoff and Evan Thomas, "Cheney's Long Path to War: The Hard Sell: He sifted intelligence." He brooded about threats. And he wanted Saddam gone. "The inside story of how Vice President Cheney bought into shady assumptions and helped persuade a nation to invade Iraq," Newsweek, Nov. 17. 2003.

117. Nancy Gibbs and Michael Ware, "Chasing A Mirage: The U.S. was sure Saddam had WMD, but Iraqi scientists tell TIME the weapons were destroyed long before the war," Time, October 6, 2003, p. 38.

136. Andrew Gumbel "Case for war confected, say top US officials," Independent, 09 November 2003.

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Thanks for asking... My "heroes" thought the same thing because they bought into the trumped-up lies and cooked intelligence that they were fed by Bush's lying cronies.

LJ, you are off topic.

Back on topic: If a repeal effort is activated now it will fail. The Senate is controlled by the Democrats.
A failed effort will greatly weaken a second repeal effort after the Republicans gain control of both House and Senate. This is a very poorly thought out idea. Or it may be a well thought out tactic of the supporters of Obamacare.

No, I answered the question...

LLIB wrote: When you get the actual proof that Bush lied, please share it and then explain why your heros thought the same thing.

You want to stay on-topic, I suggest you tell LLIB he should try to stay there...

And either way, the program is not "repealable" by one twit running for president...

I believe that there will be other offices open for election in 2012 besides the presidency. That is the only hope that the liberals will be kicked out on their asses.