Electric car revolution struggling

cydl wrote:

Joe wrote: FYI This was a good technical article written by a Tesla Engineer comparing the efficiency and emissions of various technologies.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm ... eading.pdf

Thanks for the link! I took a quick scan - will have to take a more thorough look this evening. The Tesla guys seem to have a lot on the ball in terms of electric vehicles. It'll be an interesting read!

It was a good article, except he used Natural gas for the electric source, so you have to approx. double the CO2 numbers for coal.

This site has a good comparison tool for costs for various car models...
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do? ... 7&id=23053

Joe wrote: I'm ok with natural gas too, as a medium term solution and for big Trucks.

I can see where natural gas would work for passenger vehicles, light trucks and perhaps city busses and garbage trucks, but long haul trucks? There's a reason that heavy duty equipment uses diesel fuel that has more to do with efficiency than price. Diesel fuel contains a significantly higher amount of BTU/gallon than gasoline does, upwards of 40% more. A modern turbo-charged diesel motor roughly generates twice the amount of torque than it does horsepower while gasoline powered motors are generally equal in those two measures. When you are hauling heavy loads you want that torque because it is what allows the trucks to climb the hills. If you think they are slow now, all you need to do is recollect how traffic was tied up when they were powered by gasoline motors during the 1950 - 1970 of the last century to understand why this wouldn't be a good idea.

Now, if you are talking about building a NG/electric drive train of the kind currently in use for locomotives, that might make a bit of sense for a long haul application, but to simply replace the current turbo diesel with a NG motor - that I'm not so certain of. The NG motor would have to have about double the horsepower of the current diesels to return an equal amount of torque. Generally speaking, high horsepower motors are not very durable creations. Anyone who has ever built a high horsepower motor for any kind of racing will attest to this - which is why diesels have become the default motor used whenever power and durability are required.

CritiKalbILL wrote: Electric cars will work great when everyone has massive solar panels and wind generators on their homes. I'm waiting for some Obama money to pay for mine. Then I'll get an Obama subsidy to lower the price on the car.

What's wrong with coal fired power plants again>? Today's coal fired plants generate very clean power- all the new ones have state of the art scrubber technology that remove SO3- up to 85%, Mercury- up to 94%, and particulate matter up to 98% better than the older plants. The older plants are being retro-fitted with this technology also. Unless you consider CO2 to be nasty- coal plants deliver very cost effective power- and they will continue to do so for at least the next 70 years.

And if CO2 is that big a problem (I think not) then a better policy might be to get AlGore to shut his big fat piehole- because all that comes out his mouth is hot air and CO2.

BTW- the FEDS offer a 30% tax credit to install electric solar equipment on you're home. This only works for those who have an income to write against though- so it won't work for un-employed lazy people. This has been available since 2006.

PrintSmith wrote: I can see where natural gas would work for passenger vehicles, light trucks and perhaps city busses and garbage trucks, but long haul trucks?

You may have a point PS, it sounds like they are expensive for 18-wheelers. According to this article UPS is buying some, and the pay back is 10 years. Pretty long time. Sounds like the economics is better for smaller trucks like Garbage and Delivery vans.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 27910.html

United Parcel Service Inc., which runs one of the country's biggest truck fleets, pays about $95,000 for an average long-haul "tractor"—the front part of the 18-wheeler, housing the engine and driver. It recently ordered 48 natural-gas versions at a cost of $195,000 apiece—about double the cost of a diesel model, said Mike Britt, UPS's director of engineering and maintenance

I think we need to open their minds and consider the full range of what an electric cars are. Sure, that 2012 Prius is slick and "sporty" while still being green but, imagine ripping along 285 at 25 MPH in your parka and boots in one of these beauties, iPod blasting through your ear buds:



Besides, imagine what the open cab experience will add to your commute! Communing with nature, bugs in your teeth, and a real open air experience every time you drive it! Heck head down to Harbor Freight and pick up a couple of solar trickle chargers, screw them on to the roof of your car then wire 'em up to the battery, who knows how much you could increase your range!

With all the cash you would be saving on gasoline you could even afford to soup up your car over time. Swap out that plain Jane battery for an Optima blue top deep cycle marine battery, hunt down a bigger electric motor - something big like an elevator motor (you might need to add batteries to make it go tho). Maybe add on some fancy hub caps or tricked out rims and tires too. Do they make a lift kit for your car? Find out and be the first kid on your block to own and operate an electric mini-monster cart!

Let's not over look the obvious safety features of these vehicles either! Sure the center of gravity is a little higher on these units but consider the top speed, at 25 MPH you will have plenty of time to attempt a "Fred Flintstone" braking maneuver should the brakes fail. What about roll overs? Pay attention when you drive and don't turn too sharp and you'll rarely need to give it another thought! Logic dictates that the lower speeds of these vehicles will significantly lower the traffic mortality rate, possibly resulting in lower insurance premiums and relaxed safety standards from CDOT and the NTSB! If it saved one life wouldn't it be worth it?!