Science Chic wrote: Even something is a burden when you are only making $15,000/year. I know, I've been there and done that. Usually, the point of making people pay into something is so they have a vested interest in the outcome of what they pay into, and so they take on more responsibility - I get that and agree with it. But there has to be a limit of what to expect from those who would have to forego food in order to pay taxes.
No, I'm not saying that 48% of the pop. is at or below poverty level, that's why I said that we tax code revisions need to be made - those making over poverty level, and especially those making $200K+, shouldn't be able to claim so many deductions that they pay nothing. But those making below poverty level (and whatever that amount is set at is a topic for yet another debate), should not have to pay, IMO.
Fine with me... the nation's poverty rate rose to 15.1 percent in 2010. Then the laws and deductions should be changed that everyone else pays something, and the 84.9% left of those who are not at the poverty level, including who are currently not paying anything, should be paying something.
Science Chic wrote: Even something is a burden when you are only making $15,000/year. I know, I've been there and done that. Usually, the point of making people pay into something is so they have a vested interest in the outcome of what they pay into, and so they take on more responsibility - I get that and agree with it. But there has to be a limit of what to expect from those who would have to forego food in order to pay taxes.
No, I'm not saying that 48% of the pop. is at or below poverty level, that's why I said that we tax code revisions need to be made - those making over poverty level, and especially those making $200K+, shouldn't be able to claim so many deductions that they pay nothing. But those making below poverty level (and whatever that amount is set at is a topic for yet another debate), should not have to pay, IMO.
I totally agree...And from state to state, it varies...Some states have a senior tax-exemption for county/state taxes (property/school/etc.) Colorado passed one a few years ago, (50% reduction in taxes on the first $200,000 of home valuation...IF you've lived in your home as a primary residence for the last 10 years, and you are over 65 at the beginning of that taxable year)... Unfortunately, both the GOP and Dem governors "suspended" that tax break for the last several years; but this year there was a slight SURPLUS in the state budget, so they are allowing it to actually go into effect this year; (actually, next year, since it will apply to the 2012 tax-year). Of course, next year they could suspend it again, but at least it will be good for a year. Again, that varies from state to state...But for seniors on a fixed-income, I'm sure it helps.
However, I think that exemption should be means-tested as well. If you're over 65, have a million dollar home, and are making over $75,000-100,000 on your investments, then you can surely afford to pay the whole amount.
Despite the propaganga here - the raw facts remain quite different than the assertions. Sure a few thousand people figured out how to write off all their expenses and manage to pay little or no taxes, but the vast majority of top earners pay more than their fair share of taxes.
Also- those who are higher earners have less of a need for government programs because they can afford to carry their own weight in this country. The 48% oif Americans who pay no taxes at all are the very same ones using the welfare state and all the entitlements that go with it. The fact is that those of us who earn a decent living do not qualify for those entitlement benefits.
The Top 1% pay 36.73% of all federal taxes collected by our government.
The Top 5% pay 58.66% of all federal taxes collected by our government.
The Top 10% pay 70.47% of all federal taxes collected by our government.
The Top 25% Pay 87.30% of all federal taxes collected by our government.
That last line bears repeating- the top 25% pay nearly 90% of all the taxes!
And the top 50% pay 97.75% of all the taxes!
The Bottom 50% - well they only pay 2.25% of the taxes- I think we can see where the problem is here- these people have no skin in the game- these are the deadbeat looters who are milking our system. They are not only doing a diservice to themselves and their families- they are a drag on every hard working producer in the USA.
You can see why we producers get ready to puke everytime we hear BS propaganga like the garbage in the first post of this thread.
I'm not at all worried about the tiny percentage of people who manage to zero out their tax liability- I'm much more worried about the massive percentage of people who are living off the producers, living off government entitlements, raising families on food stamps- I'm much mopre concerned about the looters, because they are destroying America with laziness, and dragging down the rest of us who pull our own weight.
Before we clamp down on 35 thousand people who know how to use the tax code to minimize their tax liability- we should do somthing about the 100+ millions of us who are deadbeats.
I like to drive by because, yes, I have lot's of things on my schedule that don't involve shelaxing on a computer all day. ANYhow, I wanted to bring some personal things up:
1.) Long story short, my Dad started working in the oil and gas industry when he was around twenty-three years old, as a grunt, working the shitty hours and not making much. Now, forty years later, he's a drilling consultant. Well, in 2009, I think he earned somewhere around $195K. Throughout the red tape, paperwork & b.s and the completion of that years taxes (all of his evil belongings and investments too!!!), they had him paying out around $90K. Wow, that's damn near half. Course, I suppose I'm a liar, such as arses like LJ would have you believe. Keep it up dummies.
One of my Grandma's lived comfortable in retirement on social assistance up until the day she died, but that's back when money still had value and there wasn't a million open palms to one. All of ya'll that want to keep giving people things for free or at ridiculous discounts need to wake up, or shut up already, one or the other.
2.) I am below the national average for middle income, well below, but I don't whine and carry on about people like my Dad because I don't have the "sally ass" mentality. "Sally ass" means that you sit around and complain about how other people did better than you in life, then try and make excuses as to why they are the downfall of this country and the downfall of what you want to get out of life. I work hard, I keep busy during R&R doing things I enjoy, I modestly spend, then I pay my debts, and I go about my life peaceably and do what I have to according to the laws of the land and paper. I'll shovel concrete before I sit around and take hand outs. If I'm too decrepit, well maybe I should be in the ground pushing daisies. Ohhhhhhh, poor guy, waaaaaa....give me a break. I voted for Obama, and now I regret that and can admit it to anyone (that came with time because I was so embarrassed) Oh yea, F**K BUSH too while we're at it. Hated that dumb Texan arse, but I couldn't count how many politicians I hate on both hands and feet, let alone the people that campaign for said politicians!!! I can't STAND the ballooning social assistance we got in this country, and I can't STAND sally asses. People keep breeding and then turn around and tell me to put into the pot more. No, not "teabaggers" or jack hole "libs." My friends and family that I thought were closer than anyone. EVERYONE has the disease. EVERYONE is attacking each other at the throat for what they are or want to achieve. The political game will continue whether or not you give two shits or who you vote for. What needs to happen is a complete 100% collapse. Oh certainly it'll suck goats, but after all these months watching the same tired arguments, it's obvious people just ain't gonna learn, so perhaps a complete melt down will get rid of some people.
Furthermore, whoever writes these articles exaggerating how wealthy people don't pay their fair share are equally worthless. I will agree that there are a lot of people that don't trim any fat, but you know what? THAT'S WHAT YOU ALL WANTED, THAT'S WHAT YOU GOT. This is all a mountain of shit that was built over the last sixty some odd years, and now it's crashing down. Keep blaming each other though, when the shit hits the fan, you'll be rats in a drawer. What a flippin' mess. Thanks a lot.
BearMtnHIB wrote: Despite the propaganga here - the raw facts remain quite different than the assertions. Sure a few thousand people figured out how to write off all their expenses and manage to pay little or no taxes, but the vast majority of top earners pay more than their fair share of taxes.
Also- those who are higher earners have less of a need for government programs because they can afford to carry their own weight in this country. The 48% oif Americans who pay no taxes at all are the very same ones using the welfare state and all the entitlements that go with it. The fact is that those of us who earn a decent living do not qualify for those entitlement benefits.
The Top 1% pay 36.73% of all federal taxes collected by our government.
The Top 5% pay 58.66% of all federal taxes collected by our government.
The Top 10% pay 70.47% of all federal taxes collected by our government.
The Top 25% Pay 87.30% of all federal taxes collected by our government.
That last line bears repeating- the top 25% pay nearly 90% of all the taxes!
And the top 50% pay 97.75% of all the taxes!
The Bottom 50% - well they only pay 2.25% of the taxes- I think we can see where the problem is here- these people have no skin in the game- these are the deadbeat looters who are milking our system. They are not only doing a diservice to themselves and their families- they are a drag on every hard working producer in the USA.
You can see why we producers get ready to puke everytime we hear BS propaganga like the garbage in the first post of this thread.
I'm not at all worried about the tiny percentage of people who manage to zero out their tax liability- I'm much more worried about the massive percentage of people who are living off the producers, living off government entitlements, raising families on food stamps- I'm much mopre concerned about the looters, because they are destroying America with laziness, and dragging down the rest of us who pull our own weight.
Before we clamp down on 35 thousand people who know how to use the tax code to minimize their tax liability- we should do somthing about the 100+ millions of us who are deadbeats.
Bear, can we meet up for a root beer one of these days????? I'm in love, ROFL.
Edit: P.S You speak a lot more eloquently than I do Bear
I don't have the numbers here......and not particularly inclined to go digging for them.....but if 25% pay almost 90% of the income taxes.....how much of the total income does that 25% represent? Without that number your numbers, Bear, are meaningless.
Jekyll- I agree with you. The way it's going, it's gonna be a hard crash- and those who are looting off the system are going to be the worst hit.
The thing is- here all these people are so worried about a few people who manage to fit into a tiny percentage of lucky ones who can write most of their taxes down- the vast vast majority of us can't do this because we don't fit into those loopholes. So what- life is not fair.
They are worried about a few thousand folks- when HALF the damn country isn't pulling their own weight!
It comes down to this- you can spend all your time worrying about a few producers who get to keep their money, all bothered up with jealousy and covetousness - caught up in the class warfare game played by the left- or you could be more concerned about why half of this country needs to live off those of us who work for a living.
The real problem is obivous- we know who's out there supporting who.
BearMtnHIB wrote: Jekyll- I agree with you. The way it's going, it's gonna be a hard crash- and those who are looting off the system are going to be the worst hit.
The thing is- here all these people are so worried about a few people who manage to fit into a tiny percentage of lucky ones who can write most of their taxes down- the vast vast majority of us can't do this because we don't fit into those loopholes. So what- life is not fair.
They are worried about a few thousand folks- when HALF the damn country isn't pulling their own weight!
It comes down to this- you can spend all your time worrying about a few producers who get to keep their money, all bothered up with jealousy and covetousness - caught up in the class warfare game played by the left- or you could be more concerned about why half of this country needs to live off those of us who work for a living.
The real problem is obivous- we know who's out there supporting who.
Bear, can we meet up for a root beer one of these days????? I'm in love, ROFL.
