20 quotes from U.S. historical figures about religion

I don't have time to search all 20 of those "quotes", but I did look up the first quotes attributed to Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams.

They are all taken out of context, and of those three, the only one with even a little hint of truth to it is Jefferson's quote.

Those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy,―the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man,―endeavored to crush your well-earnt & well-deserved fame.

Exposure:

Even taken out of context, Jefferson's quote does not support Maher's claim that the United States is not a christian nation according to the Founding Fathers. At best, the quote seems to show hostility on the part of Jefferson toward christianity.

However, the quote is taken from a letter to Joseph Priestley, who is best remembered today as a scientist, but was also a minister and author of An History of the Corruptions of Christianity (1782). It may be this book that Jefferson alludes to in his compliment to Priestley for "simplifying the Christian philosophy", which while "the most sublime and benevolent" is also the "most perverted system that ever shone on man". Jefferson here uses the word "perverted" in its sense of turned away from the right course, which is similar in sense to Priestley's use of the word "corruption".

Both Jefferson and Priestley believed that christianity had been corrupted and perverted from its original, simpler form. Jefferson was, indeed, hostile to this corrupt form of christianity, but he simultaneously believed that the philosophy of Jesus was "the most sublime and benevolent…system that ever shone on man." In a letter to Benjamin Rush (4/21/1803), he explained:

To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/contexts.html



The Franklin quote it pretty much just made up.

Did Benjamin Franklin write

Lighthouses are more useful than churches

in Poor Richard’s Almanack, as claimed in the 1997 book Texas iconoclast, Maury Maverick Jr. (pp.110-111)?

No.

This (pseudo-)quotation has been circulating since at least 1997, and possibly since the 1960s or 1970s, but it is not found in Franklin’s works. Sometimes it is given as “Lighthouses are more helpful than churches” or “A lighthouse is more useful than a church,” but no form is authentic.

This is probably intended as a summary of something Franklin is said to have written to his wife on 17 July 1757 after a narrow escape from shipwreck off the English coast. This letter appears to have been lost, but an excerpt appears in a footnote on p. 133 of the 1818 edition of Memoirs of the Life and Writings of Benjamin Franklin:

The bell ringing for church, we went thither immediately, and with hearts full of gratitude, returned sincere thanks to God for the mercies we had received: were I a Roman Catholic, perhaps I should on this occasion vow to build a chapel to some saint, but as I am not, if I were to vow at all, it should be to build a light-house.

http://fakehistory.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/benjamin-franklin-lighthouses-and-churches/



The quote from Adams is taken so far out of context that it is essentially a lie.

This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!

Exposition: This quote is sometimes cited by people who argue against religion and want to appeal to Adams' authority, or who use the quote as evidence that the Founding Fathers were opposed to religion.

Context:

Twenty times, in the course of my late Reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible Worlds, if there were no Religion in it"!!! But in this exclamati[on] I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly [Adams' boyhood parish priest and Latin school master]. Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell.

Exposure: The contextomy is in quotation marks in Adams' letter, which is an important part of the context, since it shows that Adams is not endorsing that sentiment, but in fact rejecting it.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/contexts.html

So of those three, one has a little truth to it but does not represent Jefferson's beliefs, and two are pretty much lies. Looks like more cut and paste garbage from Raees to me...

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one.
Thomas Jefferson (1743 - 1826)

pineinthegrass wrote: I don't have time to search all 20 of those "quotes", but I did look up the first quotes attributed to Jefferson, Franklin, and Adams.

They are all taken out of context, and of those three, the only one with even a little hint of truth to it is Jefferson's quote.

Those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy,―the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man,―endeavored to crush your well-earnt & well-deserved fame.

Exposure:

Even taken out of context, Jefferson's quote does not support Maher's claim that the United States is not a christian nation according to the Founding Fathers. At best, the quote seems to show hostility on the part of Jefferson toward christianity.

However, the quote is taken from a letter to Joseph Priestley, who is best remembered today as a scientist, but was also a minister and author of An History of the Corruptions of Christianity (1782). It may be this book that Jefferson alludes to in his compliment to Priestley for "simplifying the Christian philosophy", which while "the most sublime and benevolent" is also the "most perverted system that ever shone on man". Jefferson here uses the word "perverted" in its sense of turned away from the right course, which is similar in sense to Priestley's use of the word "corruption".

Both Jefferson and Priestley believed that christianity had been corrupted and perverted from its original, simpler form. Jefferson was, indeed, hostile to this corrupt form of christianity, but he simultaneously believed that the philosophy of Jesus was "the most sublime and benevolent…system that ever shone on man." In a letter to Benjamin Rush (4/21/1803), he explained:

To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; and believing he never claimed any other.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/contexts.html



The Franklin quote it pretty much just made up.

Did Benjamin Franklin write

Lighthouses are more useful than churches

in Poor Richard’s Almanack, as claimed in the 1997 book Texas iconoclast, Maury Maverick Jr. (pp.110-111)?

No.

This (pseudo-)quotation has been circulating since at least 1997, and possibly since the 1960s or 1970s, but it is not found in Franklin’s works. Sometimes it is given as “Lighthouses are more helpful than churches” or “A lighthouse is more useful than a church,” but no form is authentic.

This is probably intended as a summary of something Franklin is said to have written to his wife on 17 July 1757 after a narrow escape from shipwreck off the English coast. This letter appears to have been lost, but an excerpt appears in a footnote on p. 133 of the 1818 edition of Memoirs of the Life and Writings of Benjamin Franklin:

The bell ringing for church, we went thither immediately, and with hearts full of gratitude, returned sincere thanks to God for the mercies we had received: were I a Roman Catholic, perhaps I should on this occasion vow to build a chapel to some saint, but as I am not, if I were to vow at all, it should be to build a light-house.

http://fakehistory.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/benjamin-franklin-lighthouses-and-churches/



The quote from Adams is taken so far out of context that it is essentially a lie.

This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!

Exposition: This quote is sometimes cited by people who argue against religion and want to appeal to Adams' authority, or who use the quote as evidence that the Founding Fathers were opposed to religion.

Context:

Twenty times, in the course of my late Reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible Worlds, if there were no Religion in it"!!! But in this exclamati[on] I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly [Adams' boyhood parish priest and Latin school master]. Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell.

Exposure: The contextomy is in quotation marks in Adams' letter, which is an important part of the context, since it shows that Adams is not endorsing that sentiment, but in fact rejecting it.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/contexts.html

So of those three, one has a little truth to it but does not represent Jefferson's beliefs, and two are pretty much just made up. Looks like more cut and paste garbage from Raees to me...

Ya, looks like Raees is as much a religious bigot as LJ, (if that's even possible).

Oh goody! An out of context cut 'n' paste bonanza!!!!!!

I love playing this game!

George Washington
1st U.S. President

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

John Adams
2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."
--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.

"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever."
--Adams wrote this in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776.

Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."
--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

John Hancock
1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."
--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.

Benjamin Franklin
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Unites States Constitution

"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

"That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;

"But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
--Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790.

I said it all in my first post on this thread. Raees and Lady Jazzer are a bunch of bigot assholes. And the cut and paste lies from Raees is to be expected. The left is morally corrupt.

From another discussion...but the remarks fit here as well...

Science Chic wrote: Unless you've hung out here on a regular basis and/or been posting regularly (cuz you're crazy??!!), it's easy to mistake TLGT's harmless sarcasm with his genuine attempts at trolling. Let's give hillfarmer a break! :thumbsup: hillfarmer, thank you for smacking TLGT down, he deserves it every time! tongue:

Raees wrote: From another discussion...but the remarks fit here as well...

Science Chic wrote: Unless you've hung out here on a regular basis and/or been posting regularly (cuz you're crazy??!!), it's easy to mistake TLGT's harmless sarcasm with his genuine attempts at trolling. Let's give hillfarmer a break! :thumbsup: hillfarmer, thank you for smacking TLGT down, he deserves it every time! tongue:

I love that quote. It's certainly better than addressing your clip and paste, out of context lies and religious bigotry that started this thread. Keep up the good work, you're digging your hole deeper and deeper.

It's not my hole I'm digging. I'm digging it for you. :thumbsup:

Edited to add: To be very clear, this post is sarcasm.

(I didn't want TLGT to get his panties in a wad any more than they already are.)

Mtn Gramma wrote:

Blazer Bob wrote:

Raees wrote: Kind of gives you an idea of how Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine would be treated by the conservatives if they posted on this board, doesn't it?

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTElRUa9COX1Ffx_62lUxEC1tsEJDXY6K4Hr6VLK-XVldRqLzk

Are you meaning that they would be treated like something rare and precious? Or treated like they're stone-d?

All the left has is "pay no attention to the last 3.5 years, look at the shiny objects instead. Or, don't vote for Romney he is Bush. Vote for Obama, he is Clinton.