Rightwing gun nut guns down man for texting at movie theater

As usual, VL starts running his mouth without a grasp of the facts, or reality for that matter.

43 year old man confronts a 71 year old man after first refusing to be civil and considerate when given the opportunity and gets shot as a result of trying to bully someone he perceived to be weaker than himself. That's the story in a nutshell.

IIRC from an earlier incident down in Florida, that State allows the use of force, including deadly force, when one believes that they are in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death even if they have not yet sustained any real injury. I can easily see where a 71 year old man may have worried that the 43 year old man's fist was going to be the next thing thrown after the younger man threw his popcorn at him. The elder man had already asked the boor to stop, numerous times, and gone to the theater management to report the behavior, which is why the younger man accosted him upon his return to the theater according to the stories I have seen about the incident.

The man wasn't shot for texting at the theater, he was shot because he first threatened and then assaulted someone much older than himself. Guess we'll see whether a jury has more sympathy for a senior citizen or a young father at the trial.

Well PS, I don't see how popcorn in the face would be justification for a fatal bullet, but that's just me. Now if the older guy was getting an MMA style beatdown, that would be a different story.

Well PS, I don't see how popcorn in the face would be justification for a fatal bullet, but that's just me. Now if the older guy was getting an MMA style beatdown, that would be a different story. The guy was an ex-cop and should have thicker skin and bigger balls than that.

Are you saying that the senior citizen had a duty to wait until such time as he was actually injured before acting Rick? He'd already been assaulted by a man who was angry and clearly unable to control that anger, was he supposed to wait until the man assaulted him a 2nd time?

Don't know the specifics of the so called "stand your ground" law in Florida, but Colorado law speaks of use of deadly force if overwhelmed in size or number when the person believes they may be killed or will receive great bodily injury. Read CRS 18-1-704 for more on this. Much will be placed on whom initiated aggressive action, asking someone to stop violating theater policy regarding cell phone use wouldn't be initiating aggression, but should have been directed to staff at the theater.

That's not the way I learned to resolve a conflict. I learned that when you have a problem with an individual you first attempt to address it with that individual. If that doesn't work you go to the next level, but you don't skip that first step of trying to first address it with the individual.

And, if reports on the incident are correct, that is exactly the way the elder man handled it. He first asked the younger man to cease using his phone, more than once according to the accounts, and then took it to the theater management when that effort didn't produce any results. Ironically it was his taking it to the theater management that made the boor angry at him as opposed to simply annoyed with him and which touched off the initial round of taunting that then escalated into an actual physical assault before he was shot.

Now, having grown up learning that the only fair fight is a fight you win and that if you find yourself in a fair fight you've obviously done something wrong to put yourself in that position, I would expect that the popcorn was a tactic to draw attention away from what was to follow, akin to throwing dirt or whatever else was handy into the face of an opponent to get them to react to that so that it created an opening for the next blow. I've read a few different accounts of the incident so far and some of them have included references to pushing without saying who was pushing whom or if both of them were pushing each other before the shot was fired.

The Florida Statute (776.013) reads as follows:

(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

3. 776.08 f.s. Abstract: 776.08 Forcible felony. —“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual. 74-383; s.

This is also interesting in how it might apply to the above:

784.08 Assault or battery on persons 65 years of age or older; reclassification of offenses; minimum sentence.—
(1) A person who is convicted of an aggravated assault or aggravated battery upon a person 65 years of age or older shall be sentenced to a minimum term of imprisonment of 3 years and fined not more than $10,000 and shall also be ordered by the sentencing judge to make restitution to the victim of such offense and to perform up to 500 hours of community service work. Restitution and community service work shall be in addition to any fine or sentence which may be imposed and shall not be in lieu thereof.
(2) Whenever a person is charged with committing an assault or aggravated assault or a battery or aggravated battery upon a person 65 years of age or older, regardless of whether he or she knows or has reason to know the age of the victim, the offense for which the person is charged shall be reclassified as follows:
(a) In the case of aggravated battery, from a felony of the second degree to a felony of the first degree.
(b) In the case of aggravated assault, from a felony of the third degree to a felony of the second degree.
(c) In the case of battery, from a misdemeanor of the first degree to a felony of the third degree.
(d) In the case of assault, from a misdemeanor of the second degree to a misdemeanor of the first degree.
(3) Notwithstanding the provisions of s. 948.01, adjudication of guilt or imposition of sentence shall not be suspended, deferred, or withheld.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index

Yet the media only portrays the "man with gun kills movie goer that uses cell phone."
Glad we still get our day in court verses tried by media.

PrintSmith wrote: Are you saying that the senior citizen had a duty to wait until such time as he was actually injured before acting Rick? He'd already been assaulted by a man who was angry and clearly unable to control that anger, was he supposed to wait until the man assaulted him a 2nd time?

What damages did this sr citizen have other than an injured ego and possibly some popcorn eye? I agree with you on just about everything, but defending this kind of action doesn't do much to help the 2nd amendment fight imo. I'll wait to hear the evidence, maybe the guy pulled a knife or something that would change the situation. I was sucker punched in a bar one night in the late 80s and I guarantee if I had a gun, I still wouldn't have pulled it. Cops, even old retired ones should use more common sense and just move away from the asshole if he felt threatened.

Rick wrote:

PrintSmith wrote: Are you saying that the senior citizen had a duty to wait until such time as he was actually injured before acting Rick? He'd already been assaulted by a man who was angry and clearly unable to control that anger, was he supposed to wait until the man assaulted him a 2nd time?

What damages did this sr citizen have other than an injured ego and possibly some popcorn eye? I agree with you on just about everything, but defending this kind of action doesn't do much to help the 2nd amendment fight imo. I'll wait to hear the evidence, maybe the guy pulled a knife or something that would change the situation. I was sucker punched in a bar one night in the late 80s and I guarantee if I had a gun, I still wouldn't have pulled it. Cops, even old retired ones should use more common sense and just move away from the asshole if he felt threatened.

Agree. People are too quick to use deadly force with these make my day laws. "But Officer, I felt threatened because he farted in my general direction!"

The Colorado so called "make my day" law applies to someone in your residence only. The law guarantees your absolute safety in your home.