I have to say that I mostly agree with archer. Though my degree is in science, and I used it for a long while, the field I was in lost a lot of good people due to labs closing with restricted government funding. Many of those who went first were ones, I think, that were lacking in writing and networking skills - you don't learn either of those skills well solely in science-based courses.
I absolutely agree that other science fields are doing well, and that you do NOT need a college degree in order to make a good living; but, as the years have passed I have been more and more grateful at the non-science courses I had that helped me gain bigger perspective, and showed me a different way to consider/reflect/approach things in life. Had I not had Economy, a course on eastern religious traditions, minored in Women's Studies, taken Philosophy, Psychology, Sociology, Art, etc I wouldn't be as thoughtful, well-read, well-written, thoughtful, skeptical, considerate, deliberate, or open-minded as I am now. What I learned in those other subjects has absolutely helped me in science, and now. As a business owner I definitely would look for how well-rounded and educated a person is when hiring them.
The fact that going to college has become "expected" and that kids coming out are essentially indentured servants with the staggering debt-load they carry, is a problem. It doesn't mean that a college degree isn't worthy, just that the system needs to be fixed (not just college, education, jobs, the whole she-bang).
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
I came out of high school and right into what I thought would be an architectural degree... my parents were willing to foot the bill. I found that field to be full of egos and attitudes and quit after 2 semesters. Parents told me that was my shot and if I wanted to go back it would be on my dime. So, I worked as a land surveyor for a few years to put away some money and went back and got a AS degree in Engineering Technology and started on a career of changes that led me to a job as a Network Engineer 12 years later... been there since. I went back to school when my daughter graduated high school only to show her (and my son a few years later) a path, that if I could do it they could type of thing. Made dean’s list first few years then a move to Colorado and the process of building our log home stopped that in its tracks. Re-started taking courses on line once house was done and graduated with a BA in Business Management last year....
Does it help me now? Some, I do deal with large IT/Network projects that I use if for, budgeting, burn rates, depreciation, capexl vs opex costs.... all things I learned during this degree made me a better planner and engineer. I can talk to the business from a position of knowing their end of it and that actually is the thing that it has helped me th most.
I would do it again in a heartbeat. My path to where I am today has been full of changes, of hard work and learning/growth. The thing my degree's have helped me with the most is it taught me how be a fast study, new technologies were picked up easily and grew a deep and wide skill set. It makes me a valuble employee to our IT staff and has brought me to a point of a solid salary with bonus and don't have to work very long hours to do it anymore.
Every person is different, is a college degree for everyone? Probably not. Do some people not fully utilize it to maximize their career? I'm sure that happens more than it should.
I loved my college years and although I majored in business I took a lot of diverse courses, everything from fencing to advanced philosophy and psychology courses. Loved the enviroment of learning.
Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.
I had a Prof. tell me that a college degree is basically only validation of basic intelligence, and proof that someone can start and finish something. I pretty much agree with that assessment. It took me most of my adult working life to finish my undergrad and I have one class left to finish my MBA. I think I'll make it before I hit the age of 50, but it will be close... :faint:
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
Robert A. Heinlein
This Bureau of Labor Statistics table is pretty telling in regards the unemployment level and income level vs. education...
Of course statistics don't tell the whole story. In some cases companies won't hire you unless you reach a certain education level. And I'm sure there would be a perception that you won't be a hard worker if you didn't graduate from high school even if there is no degree required.
I think a college degree is at least a good indication that you are willing to stick it out and work to achieve a goal. It doesn't necessarily mean you are any smarter, it could be that or it could be that you just work harder.
You can also show an indication of your work ethic from other things you did after high school including military experience, job experience, or starting a successful business.
My guess is your first job is when the college degree(s) helps the most. After that I'd guess work experience and networking become more and more important.
IF you have a child under say 9.....focus the child on those efforts that discipline the mind (math, science). For a person to be successful in STEM professions it takes years of math + to be able to even function in a good engineering school (like locally MINES). No one can fake math at the college level.
If McDonalds is the kids goal and yours.....go with the flow, spend $50,000 on a soft degree(and repay us the taxpayers the loan) but do not whine when she/he is in the back bedroom at 30.
The USA passes 60,000 H1B visas to foreign engineers YEARLY because we cannot produce the skills our 21st century companies need badly......these jobs pay $100,000 yearly and upward plus benes and per diem. What fools the Sheeple are.
FredHayek wrote: I loved my college years and although I majored in business I took a lot of diverse courses, everything from fencing to advanced philosophy and psychology courses. Loved the enviroment of learning.
OT
Epee, saber or foil? If foil, I challenge you to a duel. I expect we are both rusty if you have not fenced since college. I keep the foils and masks for decades but never found anyone to spar with and finally sold them on E-Bay before we moved to CO.
Saber was my preferred weapon, but enjoyed the others. You are right, I haven't fenced since college, not too many sparring partners in South Park. En garde!
Back on topic: Pretty much every job we offer at my company now requires a college degree. Irony? Some of the older employees who are managers don't have college degrees because we couldn't be as picky with new hires 15 years ago.
Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.
Pine...stats do tell the whole story...fuzzy edge of issue stuff really is not germane IMHO. Thanks for the info. BTW STEM professions are even more startling.......this data also reflects the soft degrees I assume.
