The Importance of Context

01 Dec 2014 15:48 - 01 Dec 2014 15:50 #41 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic The Importance of Context
pineinthegrass - Good one (the doughnut thing).

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01 Dec 2014 15:51 #42 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic The Importance of Context
From August, 2014: www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26417279/denv...ody-cameras-officers

From the article:

"Citizens should know officers are being held accountable," White said. "The only officers who would have a problem with body cameras are bad officers."

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01 Dec 2014 16:08 #43 by PrintSmith

homeagain wrote: PS...MORE to the point,TWO egregious ERRORS...Why did the officer allow a BREACH OF SPACE.
WHY was the body UNCOVERED on the ground,FOUR AND ONE HALF HOURS ..which is
AGAINST protocol in both situations.

The body may have been in the street for 4.5 hours home, but it wasn't uncovered for that length of time. According to the NYT a paramedic covered the body with a sheet within 15 minutes of the shooting. Once again, your emotions interfere with your recollection of facts.

Around 12:10, a paramedic who happened to be nearby on another call approached Mr. Brown’s body, checked for a pulse, and observed the blood and “injuries incompatible with life,” said his supervisor, Chris Cebollero, the chief of emergency medical services at Christian Hospital. He estimated that it had been around 12:15 when a sheet was retrieved from an ambulance and used to cover Mr. Brown.
www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/us/michael-br...son-street.html?_r=0

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01 Dec 2014 16:15 #44 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic The Importance of Context

PrintSmith wrote:

homeagain wrote: PS...MORE to the point,TWO egregious ERRORS...Why did the officer allow a BREACH OF SPACE.
WHY was the body UNCOVERED on the ground,FOUR AND ONE HALF HOURS ..which is
AGAINST protocol in both situations.

The body may have been in the street for 4.5 hours home, but it wasn't uncovered for that length of time. According to the NYT a paramedic covered the body with a sheet within 15 minutes of the shooting. Once again, your emotions interfere with your recollection of facts.

Around 12:10, a paramedic who happened to be nearby on another call approached Mr. Brown’s body, checked for a pulse, and observed the blood and “injuries incompatible with life,” said his supervisor, Chris Cebollero, the chief of emergency medical services at Christian Hospital. He estimated that it had been around 12:15 when a sheet was retrieved from an ambulance and used to cover Mr. Brown.
www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/us/michael-br...son-street.html?_r=0


Where, in the evidence presented to the Grand Jury, does anything like what you are saying appear, P? Relying on a reporter? C'mon.

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01 Dec 2014 16:26 #45 by PrintSmith
Where, in the evidence examined by the grand jury, does it state that the body of the thug lay uncovered in the street for over 4 hours Z?

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01 Dec 2014 16:37 #46 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic The Importance of Context

PrintSmith wrote: Where, in the evidence examined by the grand jury, does it state that the body of the thug lay uncovered in the street for over 4 hours Z?


Deflection, P. You brought it up the body was covered. You used a reporter's story to "validate" your assertion. Now you need to own it.

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01 Dec 2014 16:51 #47 by pineinthegrass
From the evidence that was presented to them, I think the grand jury made the right call. I just don't see any chance that you could get 12 unbiased jurors to unanimously agree beyond a reasonable doubt that the officer was not acting in self defense and deliberately murdered Brown. If you can't get a conviction, why waste time having a trial which will just cause more emotional reactions when a not guilty verdict or acquittal is found?

There were several witnesses that supported much of Wilson's testimony. I'm not aware of any physical evidence which strongly disputed Wilson's testimony. Much of it was consistent with and even supported Wilson's account.

Here is the testimony of one of the eye witnesses. It's a good read, IMO. It's really surprising to me how close his account matches Wilson's. It's almost as if Wilson wrote it himself. You might take a look at the bottom of page 15 where the witness gives his opinion about Wilson's use of deadly force. And the bottom of page 16 plus page 17 is interesting too (well, it's all interesting to me).

www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370930-...view-witness-10.html

Just that one account creates reasonable doubt to me, assuming cross examination can not destroy the witness' credibility. And the problem for the prosecution is there are several other eye witnesses that support much of Wilson's account too, and their credibility would have to be successfully attacked as well (and you'd have to assume the defense does not trip up the eye witnesses that don't support Wilson's version). Not to mention discrediting the physical evidence as well. What's the odds of all that happening?

Whether you think Wilson is guilty or innocent, I just see too much reasonable doubt about his guilt in order to get 12 jurors to unanimously reach a guilty verdict. In my experience on three juries, it's very hard to get 12 people to agree on much of anything.

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01 Dec 2014 17:02 #48 by homeagain
Replied by homeagain on topic The Importance of Context
I miss typed....altho it was PARTIALLY covered,it still remained UNshielded for a long time,NOT removed.DISRESPECT for the deceased...re-read the article.

www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/us/michael-br...son-street.html?_r=0

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01 Dec 2014 17:34 #49 by PrintSmith
Fine Z - Page 37 Volume 1. Medical examiner states that he arrived on scene at approximately 2:30 and that when he arrived the body was covered by several white sheets and was behind several orange barriers shielding the body from onlookers. Shows that home's assertion is contrary to facts in evidence when she states that the body was lying uncovered in the street for 4.5 hours given that the body was covered in multiple sheets and surrounded by barriers roughly 2.5 hours after the shooting occurred. Are we happy now?

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01 Dec 2014 17:41 #50 by ZHawke
Replied by ZHawke on topic The Importance of Context

PrintSmith wrote: Fine Z - Page 37 Volume 1. Medical examiner states that he arrived on scene at approximately 2:30 and that when he arrived the body was covered by several white sheets and was behind several orange barriers shielding the body from onlookers. Shows that home's assertion is contrary to facts in evidence when she states that the body was lying uncovered in the street for 4.5 hours given that the body was covered in multiple sheets and surrounded by barriers roughly 2.5 hours after the shooting occurred. Are we happy now?


Thank you, P. That's all I need to know. I'll accept the veracity of the report over a reporter's story anytime. Shall we jump up and down in joy, now?

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