Nun Excommunicated After Saving Mother's Life With Abortion

"Although many medical ethicists say it was the right decision, the hospital confirmed McBride has been removed from her position as senior administrator and reassigned."

In what way are they supporting her other than lip service. I'm sure she didn't resign her position on her own free will, but was forced to resign. A classic example of the "establishment" wanting it both ways. "You did the right thing and we support you, but now you need to leave to make us look good." ?????????? What am I missing here PS?

What you are missing is that St. Joseph's Hospital is a Catholic hospital, not a public hospital, subject to Catholic obedience. Once Sister McBride removed herself from the Catholic faith with her actions, she was no longer eligible to hold her position and was therefore removed from that position regardless of any desire to retain her by the hospital. All they can do, since they are subject to Catholic obedience, is support her as they have done. They do not possess the ability to retain her in her former position due to her excommunication.

Ok, thank you. That is such crap though. I feel so sorry for her. So many things I want to say here on religion but I will refrain. I guess being a good human being and saving a life condemns one. I just don't get the stupidity of it all. And no, I don't want anyone to "explain" it to me (not talking about you PS cause I asked you too earlier). Stupid, stupid, stupid. :bash :bash :bash Most of all I think of feel sad for "the people" who allow this and think of themselves as evolved human beings. Ok, I'll shut up now.

FWIW SG, if indeed there were no alternatives and the mother consented to the abortion, I agree with you. Remember though that inclusion in the communion of the Catholic Church is a voluntary decision. The Church is not now, nor has it ever been, an institution run by democratic principles. Thus your voluntary decision to be a member of the community comes with a known caveat, particularly for those that choose to answer the vocational call to be a priest or a nun.

PrintSmith wrote: FWIW SG, if indeed there were no alternatives and the mother consented to the abortion, I agree with you. Remember though that inclusion in the communion of the Catholic Church is a voluntary decision. The Church is not now, nor has it ever been, an institution run by democratic principles. Thus your voluntary decision to be a member of the community comes with a known caveat, particularly for those that choose to answer the vocational call to be a priest or a nun.

First, what does FWIW mean? If there were a way to save them both I'm sure they would have. Would they have felt better to let the mother die? I know all religion is a voluntary decision. I'm just saying common sense and human decency should prevail. Why is it so black and white. The world is more gray than that IMO. I don't support the logic behind demonizing her for what she did. I don't ever want to be the kind of person who would do that.

FWIW = For What It's Worth

IMNTBHO, it is the addition of so many levels of gray that prevent common sense and human decency from being the prevailing winds in the sails of our ship of state. And I don't think that the Catholic Church has demonized the good Sister. The Church has told her that her decision removed her from the community of the Catholic Church and that her transgression needs to be remedied. I'm not sure, since I am not in possession of the same degree of information as the Bishop was when he reached his conclusion, that I can agree with what the Bishop decided and if indeed there was absolutely no hope of saving mother and child I would strongly disagree with his decision, but I, as a lifelong Catholic, have some reservations about what is being reported because it conflicts with the catechism of the Church. If there was a possibility of saving both that wasn't taken, the Bishop's decision makes sense from the perspective of the Church. If there was no possibility of saving both, his decision is outside of the boundaries of what the Church teaches. That is really as simple as I can boil it down.

archer wrote: I have to wonder if the excommunication of the nun was done more to send a message to the catholic faithful then a measured response to the actuality of the situation.

I think you've hit it RIGHT-on.
IMO, the nun is better off anyway, maybe now she can learn the Truth.

Our Creator, in His Wisdom, left us many paths back to Him TPP. Each must find their own. He cares not which path you choose, only that you stay on it and make your way back to Him when your time here is done.

Forget the jealousy part, Sunshine. lol You have unique strengths in other areas. Let us simply enjoy the insightful word smithing RL offers.

Of course, I rail against anyone who tries to impose their morality on me and it irks me to have it done under such dire circumstances to another. Your phrasing in reference to women "..... their rights are automatically suspended the moment they become pregnant." does hit on the mark. What kind of bull is that anyway?

Another point on which I'm in total agreement is your response to PS
"PS, some of us choose other faiths. Some of us choose older faiths. Some of us have decided to choose no faith and have learned to think for ourselves."
I prefer thinking for myself and am very comfortable in that position. Liberated, my thoughts can now expand into the universe unconstrained and unbridled.

With regard to the excommunication issue. Profound moments impact most of our lives. They shape our character and give pause for reflection and personal growth. I expect the excommunication will not be detrimental, rather I expect it to propel this woman in a very positive direction, one she may be most thankful about later in life.

Rockdoc wrote: Forget the jealousy part, Sunshine. lol You have unique strengths in other areas. Let us simply enjoy the insightful word smithing RL offers.

Of course, I rail against anyone who tries to impose their morality on me and it irks me to have it done under such dire circumstances to another. Your phrasing in reference to women "..... their rights are automatically suspended the moment they become pregnant." does hit on the mark. What kind of bull is that anyway?

Another point on which I'm in total agreement is your response to PS
"PS, some of us choose other faiths. Some of us choose older faiths. Some of us have decided to choose no faith and have learned to think for ourselves."
I prefer thinking for myself and am very comfortable in that position. Liberated, my thoughts can now expand into the universe unconstrained and unbridled.

With regard to the excommunication issue. Profound moments impact most of our lives. They shape our character and give pause for reflection and personal growth. I expect the excommunication will not be detrimental, rather I expect it to propel this woman in a very positive direction, one she may be most thankful about later in life.

Thank you for the kind feedback. Unfortunately, it appears as though my earlier post has been deleted as I can find no mention of it, anywhere.

The words I used did not come out of thin air. Iowa recently arrested a woman for falling down stairs while she was pregnant. They assumed she wanted to have a miscarriage because she had been recently separated from her husband, had just argued with him and she had complained about how difficult her life had become. She was later released from jail - but only because she was in her 2nd trimester and the laws did not apply to her. She also did not miscarry and had insisted on going to the hospital in order to try and save the baby. She spent several days in jail anyway when hospital authorities started questioning her. Similar bills have been up for a vote in Utah, which would make it a crime if a woman behaves in a way (or is simply reckless) and causes a miscarriage. The bill would give a woman or girl up to 15 years in prison.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/3/pr ... women_utah

Nor is this only happening in this country. The Catholic countries in this hemisphere not only are forbidding abortion even to save the life of the mother, they are also forbidding seriously ill women who are pregnant to receive any type of medical treatment which may harm the fetus. Some of these countries are also arresting women who have miscarriages, by saying that the woman was careless or deliberately neglectful, or because some instant miscarriages appear the same as an abortion. Amnesty International has been reporting on this. The response has been an attack on Amnesty International by "pro-life" groups, including members of the Catholic Church who are asking other Catholics to quit funding Amnesty International.

"Amnesty International’s position is not for abortion as a right but for women’s human rights to be
free of fear, threat and coercion as they manage all consequences of rape and other grave
human rights violations," clarified Kate Gilmore.

Yesterday Cardinal Martino, through an interview, encouraged Catholics to withdraw support for
Amnesty International, claimed that Amnesty International is "promoting abortion rights". Amnesty
International's actual policy, however, standing alongside its long-standing opposition to forced
abortion, is to support the decriminalisation of abortion, to ensure women have access to health
care when complications arise from abortion and to defend women's access to abortion, within
reasonable gestational limits, when their health or human rights are in danger.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset ... 2007en.pdf

http://www.consistent-life.org/ai.html

This "Pro-life" site is apparently upset about this:

Amnesty International, the world's largest human rights organization, definitively threw away its last chance to rescind its recent abortion advocacy policy at the International Council meeting in Mexico City last weekend. At the end of the meeting on Friday, the organization said that it would continue to promote its new policy of decriminalizing abortion in cases of rape or danger to the mother's life.

[/b]
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/aug/07082001.html

Who do these Amnesty International people think they are, decriminalizing abortion to save a woman's life?

Whether or not The Powers that Be agree, women are losing their rights the moment they become pregnant. It should be even more terrifying that such laws are being passed in this country and are being upheld in our hospitals.

In this case of this nun being excommunicated, it wasn't even a matter of choosing whether the baby or mother would live. It was a matter of saving one life or allowing two to die.