How To Tell Who's Serious About Reducing the Federal Deficit

I am an island....

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."

I am a dove hunter, dove is great on the grill with bacon wrapped around it.

And the drive by postings may, I repeat may, be amusing from time to time, but how about some of you addressing the points being made regarding being serious about the deficit and what, in your opinion, needs to be done with regards to it. Moody's has opined that the AAA rating of the United States my be put in jeopardy if the current tax rate extension bill making its way through our national Congress, including all the ornaments being hung on the annual Christmas money tree, is passed, yet it appears the Senate is on the verge of doing that very thing.

How do we eliminate 1/3 of the current budget in short order, or raise the tax burden to 150% of its current levels, or some combination of the two, to stop trying to dig our way out of this massive deficit hole? Seriously folks, we are having a national discussion, or should I say a national partisan political war, over the difference between the annual $300 Billion tax rate extension the Democrats want and the annual $370 Billion tax rate extension the Republicans want. That is a difference of $70 Billion dollars, or roughly 5%, of the $1.5 Trillion annual deficit. If the Democrats get their way, their extension amounts to 20% of the deficit, the Republican plan amounts to 25% of the deficit. Both of them seem poised to add another $150 Billion or so worth of unemployment welfare extensions and privilege of being employed tax credits which essentially wipe out about 40% of the money that would have been raised by allowing the Clinton tax rates to return for everyone.

I want to know where you think we should come up with over a TRILLION USD annually worth of budget cuts and/or tax increases to prevent digging the deficit hole another TRILLION USD deeper every year. We've already passed the point where we can grow our way out of the deficit spending through expansion of the economy. To sustain the current $3.5 Trillion annual federal budget at the historical 20% of the economy, the economy of this nation would have to go from around $14 Trillion annually to around $17.5 Trillion annually, or 125% of what it is now. Economies don't grow 25% larger in the span of a year or two without massive inflation being the cause of the expansion. It would take us a decade, if not more, to grow the economy that much. Another decade worth of digging the deficit hole we are in deeper and deeper every year. Another decade worth of borrowing the money necessary to pay the interest on the money we have already borrowed. By the time that decade was over, the interest payment on the deficit would be larger than the DoD budget. Our "mandatory" individual welfare spending alone would be more than the entirety of the federal tax receipts at that point, let alone the interest on the debt and every other function of the general government.

And so my friends, while the one liners might be mildly amusing from time to time, there comes a point where you have to stop whistling past the graveyard. IMNTBHO, we are already past that point and we are quickly approaching the point in time where we will be electing the final leader under the Constitution that was established as the foundation upon which this nation built 221 years ago unless we start filling in this deficit hole instead of blindly digging it ever deeper. We are quickly approaching the end of the experiment that was started by men willing to trust their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to Divine Providence and all hang together or surely all hang individually. Take a good look around you today and tell me if you can see the type of people that you trust to write the constitution that will replace the current one should such an event come to pass. I know I don't, and I would be greatly surprised if any of you did either.

If we want to get to serious about the deficients we must do the following ten things now!

1) Develop two forms of currency - dollar in the US is fiat, dollar traded on the international markets back by gold.
2) Cut the trade deficit with China either by tariffs or equal trade.
3) Cut government spending by 10%. Military needs to reform military retirement and it must be employee funded. Cut war efforts overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cease military operations in 50 countries.
4) Cut entitlement programs including welfare, medicare/medicaid - these are state issues.
5) Privatize social security and allow investment in only T-bills and generation ownership.
6) Eliminate out Department of Education - this is a state issue.
7) Flat national sales tax on consumer purchases. Eliminate income taxes.
8) Eliminate Department of Transportation (not projects but administration) by 50% -this is a state issue.
9) Amnesty for illegals with five easy payments of $ 5000 per year for five years per person (fine) and make an application that proves employment and no criminal history in US or Mexico.
10) Stop the exporting of dollars to Mexico by shutting down money transfer services.

PrintSmith wrote: And the drive by postings may, I repeat may, be amusing from time to time, but how about some of you addressing the points being made regarding being serious about the deficit and what, in your opinion, needs to be done with regards to it. Moody's has opined that the AAA rating of the United States my be put in jeopardy if the current tax rate extension bill making its way through our national Congress, including all the ornaments being hung on the annual Christmas money tree, is passed, yet it appears the Senate is on the verge of doing that very thing.

How do we eliminate 1/3 of the current budget in short order, or raise the tax burden to 150% of its current levels, or some combination of the two, to stop trying to dig our way out of this massive deficit hole? Seriously folks, we are having a national discussion, or should I say a national partisan political war, over the difference between the annual $300 Billion tax rate extension the Democrats want and the annual $370 Billion tax rate extension the Republicans want. That is a difference of $70 Billion dollars, or roughly 5%, of the $1.5 Trillion annual deficit. If the Democrats get their way, their extension amounts to 20% of the deficit, the Republican plan amounts to 25% of the deficit. Both of them seem poised to add another $150 Billion or so worth of unemployment welfare extensions and privilege of being employed tax credits which essentially wipe out about 40% of the money that would have been raised by allowing the Clinton tax rates to return for everyone.

I want to know where you think we should come up with over a TRILLION USD annually worth of budget cuts and/or tax increases to prevent digging the deficit hole another TRILLION USD deeper every year. We've already passed the point where we can grow our way out of the deficit spending through expansion of the economy. To sustain the current $3.5 Trillion annual federal budget at the historical 20% of the economy, the economy of this nation would have to go from around $14 Trillion annually to around $17.5 Trillion annually, or 125% of what it is now. Economies don't grow 25% larger in the span of a year or two without massive inflation being the cause of the expansion. It would take us a decade, if not more, to grow the economy that much. Another decade worth of digging the deficit hole we are in deeper and deeper every year. Another decade worth of borrowing the money necessary to pay the interest on the money we have already borrowed. By the time that decade was over, the interest payment on the deficit would be larger than the DoD budget. Our "mandatory" individual welfare spending alone would be more than the entirety of the federal tax receipts at that point, let alone the interest on the debt and every other function of the general government.

And so my friends, while the one liners might be mildly amusing from time to time, there comes a point where you have to stop whistling past the graveyard. IMNTBHO, we are already past that point and we are quickly approaching the point in time where we will be electing the final leader under the Constitution that was established as the foundation upon which this nation built 221 years ago unless we start filling in this deficit hole instead of blindly digging it ever deeper. We are quickly approaching the end of the experiment that was started by men willing to trust their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to Divine Providence and all hang together or surely all hang individually. Take a good look around you today and tell me if you can see the type of people that you trust to write the constitution that will replace the current one should such an event come to pass. I know I don't, and I would be greatly surprised if any of you did either.

When an issue has been discussed, debated, sliced, diced and commented upon ad nauseum, it deserves a bit of levity.

If you truly expect the problems of the United States of America (or even a single problem...the Federal deficit) to be solved by the few people along the 285 corridor--and one in Arizona--who frequent this website, you will be disappointed. Everything you so eloquently wrote has been written before; and will likely be written again.

Resolving a problem requires actions, not words. If you are truly passionate about what you wrote—and I have no reason to believe you aren’t—then perhaps you can suggest some actionable steps the people here can take that will make a difference. Maybe you even want to start up a grass roots effort right here in the mountains of Colorado that can spread nationwide among other people with like concerns. I'll show up for that...just tell me where and when.

Until then…I am the walrus.

Residenttroll wrote: If we want to get to serious about the deficients we must do the following ten things now!

1) Develop two forms of currency - dollar in the US is fiat, dollar traded on the international markets back by gold.
2) Cut the trade deficit with China either by tariffs or equal trade.
3) Cut government spending by 10%. Military needs to reform military retirement and it must be employee funded. Cut war efforts overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cease military operations in 50 countries.
4) Cut entitlement programs including welfare, medicare/medicaid - these are state issues.
5) Privatize social security and allow investment in only T-bills and generation ownership.
6) Eliminate out Department of Education - this is a state issue.
7) Flat national sales tax on consumer purchases. Eliminate income taxes.
8) Eliminate Department of Transportation (not projects but administration) by 50% -this is a state issue.
9) Amnesty for illegals with five easy payments of $ 5000 per year for five years per person (fine) and make an application that proves employment and no criminal history in US or Mexico.
10) Stop the exporting of dollars to Mexico by shutting down money transfer services.

RT, when you turn down the snark and insults and put some ideas out there.... you will find that on many issues the left and right aren't that far apart...
2,3,5,8,9 and 10, I agree with. 1,6,7 are definitely within a negotiate compromise from being doable and as far as 4, I'd like to see something in place that works for those who really need it, yes there is abuse, just how do we eliminate the abuse without hurting those who actually need it?

With regards to #2 from RT, do you really think that China wouldn't respond with tariffs of their own on what they do import from us or negotiate with South Korea for a KIA plant instead of with GM for one that builds Buicks? Smoot Hawley should have taught all of us what happens when you attempt to levy protectionist tariffs, shouldn't it? Regarding equal trade instead, how exactly would you propose to do that? By limiting the amount of goods that China is allowed to import into the nation? Wouldn't that have pretty much the same effect of reducing even further the amount of what China purchases from us?

I'm also a bit slow on the uptake as to how a trade imbalance with China causes an increase in the deficit incurred by the general government, unless what is being proposed here is a means of increasing revenues to the federal treasury. I don't think increased tariffs will really produce more revenue anymore than increasing income taxes upon a single segment of our population will, but I'm willing to entertain the argument if it can be made.

RT: While there is a military presence at every single U.S. Embassy & Consulate in countries where we have them, there are only actual posts/bases in 28 countries, not counting Canada or the U.S. So ceasing military operations in 50 countries is going to be difficult. And a lot of these countries welcome U.S. troops and U.S. aid.

And here's something else about the military...a lot of the major weapons systems (this includes aircraft, ships, and tanks) are old...the KC-135 tankers (refuelers) the AF uses at the moment...the youngest rolled off the receiving line in 1965...I don't believe ANY other flying entity in America flys aircraft that is even close to this old. The B-52, the only long-range bomber is older than the KC-135.

Yes, there are places where the DoD can cut...look at top management, especially of civilians in places where there are Major Commands and the D.C. area...but ceasing operations I don't believe is one of them.

And how do you propose to reform military retirement? Remember, there are civilians that retire and get government pay checks as well. And a lot of them are "double-dippers"...they get a military retirement paycheck while working full-time as a civilian.

netdude wrote:

Residenttroll wrote: If we want to get to serious about the deficients we must do the following ten things now!

1) Develop two forms of currency - dollar in the US is fiat, dollar traded on the international markets back by gold.
2) Cut the trade deficit with China either by tariffs or equal trade.
3) Cut government spending by 10%. Military needs to reform military retirement and it must be employee funded. Cut war efforts overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan. Cease military operations in 50 countries.
4) Cut entitlement programs including welfare, medicare/medicaid - these are state issues.
5) Privatize social security and allow investment in only T-bills and generation ownership.
6) Eliminate out Department of Education - this is a state issue.
7) Flat national sales tax on consumer purchases. Eliminate income taxes.
8) Eliminate Department of Transportation (not projects but administration) by 50% -this is a state issue.
9) Amnesty for illegals with five easy payments of $ 5000 per year for five years per person (fine) and make an application that proves employment and no criminal history in US or Mexico.
10) Stop the exporting of dollars to Mexico by shutting down money transfer services.

RT, when you turn down the snark and insults and put some ideas out there.... you will find that on many issues the left and right aren't that far apart...
2,3,5,8,9 and 10, I agree with. 1,6,7 are definitely within a negotiate compromise from being doable and as far as 4, I'd like to see something in place that works for those who really need it, yes there is abuse, just how do we eliminate the abuse without hurting those who actually need it?

The snark and insults come from years of hearing the name calling from the left. Need proof? Just review some of Looney Jerks headlines today.

Now back to the conversation: Glad we can agree on all of the the point presented. I think #4 should be ...need some help? what can you give back? I don't agree with extended unemployment unless you are willing to help the community with volunteering.