Science Chic wrote: I don't condone a parent doing this type of thing, but he proved a point and shouldn't be fined or jailed for it. The school should be reviewing its policies more closely now, as should every school.
That, to me, is just one more example of why groups like we're advocating need to be formed and begin working with schools, law enforcement, and other organizations to enhance school safety. I don't condone what this Dad did either, but truth be known, the fact his children come first in his life shows there are, in fact, parents out there who care enough to get more actively involved and it's our goal to help them do just that.
I believe schools generally are going to "resist" any efforts at what they consider an "infringement" on their territory. In fact, one meeting we attended in which John Michael Keyes presented the Standard Response Protocols got a response from an administrator in the audience that pretty much cemented our resolve to do something like we are doing here. He said, in so many words, the last thing we want is parental involvement. It's going to be up to us all to help effect positive change in that attitude, and it ain't gonna be easy in some cases.
Thanks for sharing the info on mental health, too. That's another facet of what needs to be addressed.
ComputerBreath wrote: I was at our company dinner last night and a co-worker's girlfriend sat next to each other at dinner. She teaches 5th grade in the Denver metro area and is really disgusted with how her school (or the district...I do not know which) is dealing with school shootings.
She said they have drills a lot, get out of the building, get out of the classroom, stay in the classroom...and pretty much all it is doing is hindering her ability to teach the kids what they need to know. The school locked all the outside doors after 4 pm, when school is let out, but a lot of the teachers escort their classes to the busses and then the teachers couldn't get back inside the building. She complained about this, and the school relented and leaves the doors unlocked for a little bit after school is out. She pointed out that once all the kids are gone is not really the time someone is going to lay seige to the school.
I asked her if cameras had been installed and she said only on the first floor of the school...there aren't any in the stairwells or the second story and there aren't any on the outside of the building. She said there was a plate glass window in her classroom and it is on the first floor...easy way to get in. All of the outside doors have glass in them...not a very go way to prevent someone from getting into the building.
I also asked her if she or any of her fellow teachers or faculty members had been asked if they had any ideas about making the school safer and she just rolled her eyes and said no, all of the decisions were made by someone else or some other group of people and didn't involve faculty, students, or parents.
Then I asked her if she would be willing to give input, should the powers-that-be decide to ask, and she said absolutely.
I just asked my son, who was enrolled in high school here in Fairplay when the PCHS shooting happened if all of the safety changes at his school were done without asking for input...I was asked through a survey sent home to me, but no one ever followed up on my comments or suggestions...my son was not asked. They did no drills for escaping at all. They locked the outside doors to the school in between the bells and anyone coming to the school had to be buzzed in...that's fine, except the majority of the outside doors were glass. Glass doesn't stop bullets (unless it is bullet-proof and that is very expensive) nor will it stop bricks or rocks or any other object that can break it.
I, too, gave my boys permission to question authority figures should they hear or be told to do something they thought was incorrect or wrong. And they did...it got one of my sons suspended for three days and got my name in lights when I complained, but it also got me respect. And my boys wouldn't not stand for anyone to bully another child...my eldest just told me that he used mental games on the bullies and stood up to them and they got angry but they backed down and earned their respect 'cuz, as he put it, he didn't take their crap.
It isn't only the school children that are bullies...some of the faculty and staff could be, too, as well as some parents in schools my kids were in.
I agree, too, with the communication or should I say lack of communication coming from the schools. When PCHS happened, I was at work...the school didn't call me, my eldest son who was home sick called me to say they wouldn't let my youngest son come home 'cuz the school was on lockdown...prior to his phone call I had no idea anything was happening. I believe, though it has been some years, that finally my youngest son called me begging for me to tell the administration to let him walk home...we live two blocks from the school and they relented only 'cuz he was pitching a fit and I promised he would call them when he got home.
The school quit teaching immediately when it became known there was a problem at PCHS and just held the students inside the building in limbo, not telling them anything but not keeping them busy...and it was real frustrating for a lot of the students to be at school and not doing anything and not knowing anything.
When I asked why parents hadn't been contacted, I was told there weren't enough people to do the contacting. Having a plan in place, where each student goes to their home room and the home room teacher makes contact with the parents to explain what is happening (or something like that) would work. It is easier for one person to call no more than 30 parents than it is for the administration to try to call 123 or so parents.
OK, enough for now. I believe asking teachers and faculty, to include janitors and cafeteria workers and bus drivers to be part of this discussion is vital.
Everything you've listed here is valid. They are also planning issues and concerns. Whether they've been addressed or not in any followup is up for debate, I'm sure. Keep the ideas coming. The more information the groups we're trying to form has, the better informed decisions they ultimately make will be. Thanks.
Very interesting list from a perspective of a possible correlation between mental health issues, medications, and mass shooting incidents. Haven't fact checked this yet, but seems pretty legitimate:
Raees, I'll requote from the second post in this thread:
One of the things being discussed in another thread is the issue of gun control. I hope our thread here doesn't devolve into the kind of discourse it has in The Courthouse, but the issue of guns must also be part of any discussion we have regarding school safety. That being said, I'd like to encourage each and every one of us who views and/or contributes to the ongoing dialogue in this thread to consider contributions from the perspective of how we might all be able to contribute our thoughts and ideas in a positive way rather than from a perspective of "proving the other guy wrong".
That being said, anyone and everyone is welcome to the discussion here. However, graphics like the one you've provided "prove" nothing and "add" nothing to the discussion, in my opinion. And this is, in fact, a discussion on enhancing safer schools. I get that you believe "Arming teachers is not the answer". But I don't understand the "why" of your contention other than what you've tried to portray in this one instance, i.e.: the assassination attempt on President Reagan. And, for the record, I've stated before, and I'll state again, I personally do not support arming teachers. I am a former teacher, I didn't go into the profession with the intention of being required to use lethal force, if necessary. That being said, I also accept the fact that those who advocate for arming teachers are not trying to make it an absolute requirement for employment - at least from what I've seen.
So, I guess to play "Devil's advocate", I'm going to ask you, "Why not arm teachers?"
I'm providing this link to a blog of a friend of ours, and am asking each and every one of you following this thread to consider posting on her blog in an effort to help her out. If you aren't already a registered user of Google, that will be a pre-requisite for posting. Hope you'll consider doing so.
http://survivingcolumbine.blogspot.com/2013/01/should-sandy-hook-school-reopen-to.html
Here's a quote from the first paragraph to give you a better idea of what's going on.
I received an email from the parent of a Sandy Hook student who survived and she has a very important question for Columbine survivors about whether kids should go to a new school or return to Sandy Hook. Please leave your thoughts in the comments below as I think it will be really helpful for their community.
This is an opportunity to help make a difference. As a community, I believe all of us here in Colorado are Columbine survivors. Following this tragedy, the phrase "We are ALL Columbine" came into wide usage. Let's try to look at this effort to help those in Newtown, CT be able to see there is a much deeper meaning to this phrase than we may have originally thought.
ZHawke, why not arm teachers? You're including all those teachers who sexually abuse kids, right, as in "all" teachers? Because arming teachers isn't the answer, as the graphic points out. All a gunman has to do is shoot the teacher first and then barricade themselves in the classroom and pick the students off at their leisure.
How about retrofitting all schools with some sort of sleeping gas dismemberment system? Gunman in a classroom? Press a button and put them all to sleep?
Raees wrote: ZHawke, why not arm teachers? You're including all those teachers who sexually abuse kids, right, as in "all" teachers? Because arming teachers isn't the answer, as the graphic points out. All a gunman has to do is shoot the teacher first and then barricade themselves in the classroom and pick the students off at their leisure.
How about retrofitting all schools with some sort of sleeping gas dismemberment system? Gunman in a classroom? Press a button and put them all to sleep?
Raees, please don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm asking for positive feedback, ideas, suggestions, etc. If we approach this issue from an attitude of "I'm right, you're stupid", we get nowhere. I can come up with all sorts of arguments against arming teachers too, not the least of which is the liability issues surrounding such an action, the level of training teachers should be required to undergo in order to "carry" on school grounds, psyche evaluations (goes to your point on sexual abuse and other mental health issues). I don't know if you've read all the other posts on this thread or not. But, if you haven't, please consider doing so. And, there actually has been a discussion in school safety circles about possibly using a "calmative" gas through ventilation systems in schools to defuse an active shooter situation. It is still under consideration, but the liabilities of something like this are also a major consideration because a gas like this would also affect students. Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to ask questions in a planning methodology to help communities arrive at possible solutions that may work for them given their particular demographics. No easy answers.
Raees wrote: To be my own devil's advocate, if this gas I suggested were known to a gunman they could easily bring along a gas mask.
I don't think "more guns" and arming teachers is the answer. A student could overpower a teacher and take their gun.
You're right. And that's one of the reasons why it is only a consideration at this point. There are a whole lot of other planning questions that can be posed regarding arming teachers, as well. Such as, do the teacher's keep their weapons under lock and key (which would render them virtually useless in an active shooter scenario)? What if they happen to forget, and leave their weapon on their desk when leaving their classroom? What kind(s) of tactical training should armed teachers be required to have in order to carry on campus? What kind of liability insurance must the district, much less the individual teacher, be required to carry in case something goes horribly wrong and they injure or kill a student by mistake?
And that's just the tip of the iceberg when discussing planning issues like these. The point I'm trying to make is there are always questions that must be asked. And, many times, those questions engender even more questions than answers sometimes. The more informed we are, and the more we take into consideration while planning for the worst and hoping for the best, the more likely there will be a positive outcome.
