Don't let ignorant people vote

How would you educate the voter to be able to recognize the duplicity of politicians? How would you educate them to see the hidden consequences of legislation whenever only limited views of such legislation is discussed in the media and the politicians.

And now we blame the voter? Most people who vote are of the more educated portion of our society, not the uneducated.

If the voter approves of legislation that we disapprove, are we so arrogant to say that they are uninformed?

THIS THREAD SCREAMS OF ARROGANCE AND ELITISM.

I am descended of a line of people who vote from anger. And you would deny them their voice?

major bean wrote: I am descended of a line of people who vote from anger. And you would deny them their voice?

Did you even bother to read the article that addresses this topic? It does not focus on any one group, much less on the matters you brought up. These are merely outgrowths of addressing issues that exist. Apparently, the author of the opinion, considered that there are plenty of ignorant voters. Ignorant does not mean stupid.

This thread does not aim to pick fights, but aims to hear views. Especially appreciated are your points on the limitations regarding information on legislation. I think the people voting has less to do with congress casting votes as opposed to ignorant people electing our representatives to congress and the presidency. This IS where we need to become more educated. Many here have expressed problems associated with that aspect and also made valuable suggestions on how we can make a difference even if only one person benefits. THAT is the essence of what is trying to be accomplished, not excluding any segment of society.

ComputerBreath wrote: My question is who to believe? One side says one thing, another side refutes that information, and the news that covers anything political is so not full of facts. So where does this education come from? And can it ever be taught without vilifying the other side?

I would submit that there are central issues that are part of a candidates' platform. Take global warming as an example. Some have done considerable research on this topic and therefore a source of tremendous information on the subject matter. We have some people on this forum who qualify on both sides of this issue and can discus the limitations of views for and against. Such dialogue can then be brought to bear in evaluating candidates and how well they actually understand the fundamentals. The position they take and why is something you can access discriminately as a consequence.

Obviously, I place greater trust in talking with or hearing from experts that are apolitical and am especially keen on taking advantage of the expertise that exists among us. There are many critical thinkers, like yourself, who seek information to make better decisions, and that is what we seek.

major bean wrote: "Informed" is subjective, just as "ignorant" is subjective.
Remember the Foxfire series of books? There were many interviews with very old backwoods people who were questioned about complex issues of life, marriage, death, and such. These people were totally unschooled but the wisdom sparkled in their words and advice.

If you had read this series of books you could hardly say that these old hillbillies were not qualified to vote.

(please do not bring up the fact that the man responsible for the creation of these books was a child molester.)

i do not believe any of the groups of people were evaluated as ignorant. Ignorance can be measured when it comes to specific matters. We are not talking about life issues in which the folks you identify are far from ignorant, but if these same people were asked to evaluate a candidate on their position regarding space flights to Mars or drilling wilderness areas, their life experiences have not touched upon those matters and thus they are ignorant on them. It really is OK to be ignorant. It simply means there is an opportunity for learning. I am ignorant on many matters of life. I'm still trying to learn and could probably benefit from the group of people you refer to. Similarly, I am comparatively ignorant about your ancestors and their views on life and their needs, so you could teach me much to mitigate my ignorance. This is what I am trying to address, nothing more nothing less.

major bean wrote: If you had read this series of books you could hardly say that these old hillbillies were not qualified to vote.

Not so sure these books do actually prove your point. I've not only read them all, they are all still on my bookshelf. But while I'd agree that the "folk wisdom" of some of these people was priceless, their general knowledge of the world outside of Rabun Gap was pretty, shall we say, garbled. I recall an entire section in one of the books talking about the then-in-the-news moon landings. Asked to comment, it was clear these people weren't even sure what was being referred to by a moon landing (some called the moon "the Mars") and several of them doubted you could land on it because in their opinions it wasn't solid like earth. A few even ventured that it was all a made-up story like a movie. At any rate, that particiular passage in the book convinced me that there were still a lot of people in this country who might be "wise" within their own limited worlds, but definitely weren't in the least bit informed about the actual modern world in which the political stage exists. It would be like having 17th century farmers voting on whether a field like genetic engineering should be regulated. You can't expect people to make good voting decisions on issues they are totally ignorant of.

I suspect knowledge of the world has penetrated a little more deeply into places like Appalachia these days, but I'm by no means sure its safe to assume that a working knowledge of the issues we are grappling with in the modern world are by any means universal in this country.

Edited to add: I found an excerpt from the Foxfire books about the moon landings. Judge for yourself if this guy's folk wisdom alone would make him a voter qualified to understand modern issues.

Them astronauts that went up there? They got there on that planet where they thought there was water, and there wasn't a drop a'water t'be found on land there. It was all covered up in stones. They got some stones and brought 'em back, but they didn't want people t'know what they was. I got this from a gover'mint man, now; and he said there wasn't anything there but brimstone. And don't your bible tell you that this world will be burnt in th' end with brimstone and fire?

I believe them other two fellers, they won't none of'em go back 'cause they ain't got no business there. And them rocks they picked up there and brought back wasn't nothing but brimstone. The whole thing they said was just alike. Brimstone. The Lord made it. Created there. That's goin' be what's gonna destroy the world. You pick up the Bible and read it there. It says when Christ comes, the fire will already be kindled. And we don't know - that under there may be carbide. You know what it is, don't you? Well, when it hit water you know what it'll do? Take a feller that don't know what hit'll do and lay a piece in his hand and spit on it, and he'll soon find out, won't he?

The Bible says that brimstone will be what will destroy the world. You can't escape that fire in water or nowhere. It'll be unquenchable fire, it says. Might be carbide there with it. Now them places they thought there was water there, they said it was just as dry as it could be - but they didn't know what it was.

They never made it to the moon anyway. They took a picture over some desert. It was just all made-up stuff. Now that moon they had pictured up there was just a shadow on th' wall from a light they had a'settin' there. They could make a shadow that looked just like it on th' wall. I've seen it done. Now they can take a light and make most anything look real. But Lord'a mercy, they can't make it work out fer real though.

Where'd they land at? Not the moon, but Mars. Well now ain't you got eyes to see it there when th' eclipse comes on th' moon? When th' eclipse comes on th' sun, what makes it? Ain't you read about the Mars? There's a place above us, when it comes over there fer enough, why it comes between us and th' moon there and makes an eclipse, and that's the shadow of that extra earth up there. Why, you can see that with your naked eye if you'll just look! If it wadn't between us and th' moon - if it was on above th' moon - why it would never bring no shadow on th' moon. They's a place up there all right.

They went up there in a missile y'know. Three of 'em together. They sent 'em up there and thought they'd send a man they could kind'a depend on. They won't let him talk though now. You've got t' find out from some gover'mint feller - have some friend in the gover'mint business - t' find out. They won't let it be broadcast. They don't want t' let people know that their that big'a fools - go right into what th' bible tells 'em not t' do. They don't want t' let 'em know what was above, and what was t' come down in th' end.

For th' Bible says that th' world will be destroyed with fire an' brimstone. All man's work'll be burned up. All th' houses 'n' everthing. These stones'll be melted and all run back t'gether.

And that moon you ain't supposed t' be on. That's the scond heaven, accordin' t'th' Bible. It ain't natural. T'ain't no place we ought t'be 'til we die. It's a spiritual place. Ain't no place fer human flesh and blood. Th' air is heavy there all th' time.

Th' last days is comin' all right. Within thirty year. He'll be down here judgin' th'livin' whenever th' end comes. Be judgin' th' people that's livin'. Don't have 't worry about them already dead.

You know, you could live t'see that day come - th'day that th' Lord comes. You could live t'see it.

All you have to do is watch Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" to know that even people who are not back woods hillbillies, who are dressed nice and walking down big city streets can be as dumb as a stump. IMO, people who don't pay attention to political issues, don't know who is representing them, and have no clue where the country is heading, can only vote based on appearance or what other people tell them to vote for. It's like a blind man judging a beauty contest when all he can go by is the voices.

The dumber our population becomes, the more bad choices it will make.

CriticalBill wrote: All you have to do is watch Jay Leno's "Jay Walking" to know that even people who are not back woods hillbillies, who are dressed nice and walking down big city streets can be as dumb as a stump..

You could be right, but since I'm not dumb enough to watch Jay Leno I couldn't say.