Town Hall Anger Over Ryan Budget

Here's a fact check on the Ryan plan...

http://factcheck.org/2011/04/obama-misrepresents-ryan-plan/

It actually has a lot of similarities to Obama's own health care bill.

So Medicare beneficiaries would buy coverage through a special marketplace. And plans would have to offer standard benefits — we don’t know what those would be yet — and accept everyone who applied. Sound familiar? It’s awfully similar to the state insurance exchanges that are part of the federal health care law.

So one idea for the Republicans to counter the Democrat attacks would be for them to simply say "hey, our plan for seniors is very much like your plan for the rest of us".

AspenValley wrote:

TPP wrote:
"reduce the military budget by about 20%+" Starting with the TSA, then the borders, cool, NO MORE body scans, Open borders, solves everything... Get your burka ready

You get your burka, I've got semi-automatic weapons. rofllol

:thumbsup: me too...

EPA's new slogan: "BEWARE! Lead is BAD for the environment, and Bad Folks!”

RenegadeCJ wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: And I mentioned it elsewhere, but I would also remove the cap on ALL income (currently at $106,800, I think) for SS taxes.

So your idea is to go back to pre-Bush rates, and remove the cap? Will you remove the cap on SS benefits, or only on the payments?

So 39.7% fed, 4.63% state (colorado), 15.3% ss/med, for a total of 59.63% tax on every dollar earned for the "rich"?

Wow...that will stifle small business. But at least the entitlements will still be there for the growing unemployment rate.

By the way, do you believe businesses will just absorb those additional costs?

We need tax reform so EVERYONE has a piece of the action. When most people don't pay taxes, they don't care how high tax rates are.

Stop trying to fold in state & local when the discussion is about Fed... For once, at least TRY to be honest enough to compare apples and apples. Yes, I would hit the top bracket with a whopping 3.9% increase... They can handle it... They certainly did during the Reagan & Clinton years, when the economy was booming. "Stifle small business..." Uh-huh...

The tiresome mantra that every single dollar of taxes is a straight pass-through as higher prices is just that--tiresome. Do I think that SS benefits should be means-tested?...You bet. But yes, I would remove the cap on the income.

LadyJazzer wrote: Stop trying to fold in state & local when the discussion is about Fed... For once, at least TRY to be honest enough to compare apples and apples. Yes, I would hit the top bracket with a whopping 3.9% increase... They can handle it... They certainly did during the Reagan & Clinton years, when the economy was booming. "Stifle small business..." Uh-huh...

The tiresome mantra that every single dollar of taxes is a straight pass-through as higher prices is just that--tiresome. Do I think that SS benefits should be means-tested?...You bet. But yes, I would remove the cap on the income.

Fine...back out the whopping 4.63% state income tax here, it is still 55% of ever dollar over the current max ($106,800) would go to the govt. Sorry...for the govt to take more from a person's work than what the person gets is flat out wrong. Especially when I know your plan would be to cap benefits at a certain amount. So in effect, you would be taxing that person (who make over $106,800) 15.3% more, with no higher benefit. Effectively changing that 39.7% rate to be 55%. Where in the world do you get 3.9% more. You said specifically to eliminate the cap on SS.

The 3.6% is the expiration of the Bush tax-cuts in the highest bracket... It would go from the current 36% to 39.6%, which is what it was under Reagan and Clinton...The other brackets even less... (Updated to correct the number to 39.6% from the IRS tables... So it's a 3.6% bump... Oh woe is me?!?!?)

Rates used to be 70%... And that was JUST for the Feds... There you go again trying suck in State, County & Local to get to your 55% number... Sorry, that dog won't hunt. You got a problem with the state having to make up the money that it is no longer receiving, take it up with the state. And yes, if you make over $350K, (just to pull a number out of thin air), you can afford to take a little less SS payments. The means-testing doesn't have anything to do with the cap on income.

LadyJazzer wrote: And I mentioned it elsewhere, but I would also remove the cap on ALL income (currently at $106,800, I think) for SS taxes.

THIS is what I'm talking about. Just your increase on this (which is 15.3%) , PLUS the increase to 39.7%. This has nothing to do with state or local.

The increase to 39.6% is a 3.6% increase.... BACK TO THE SAME LEVELS THAT IT WAS UNDER REAGAN & CLINTON...

Where do you get 15.3% increase on SS taxes by removing the cap?...I'm not arguing it--I'm just asking how you arrive at that figure....


Edited to add:

Never mind... I found it...

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/taxRates.html

So, the 15.3% is the rate that's already in place, (and has been since 1990), but for self-employed earners where the employer is not making any part of the contribution.... (Which has been modified by Obama to be 2 points lower for both employed and self-employed individuals for 2011...) That mean ol' Obama---What was he thinking?!?! Two percentage points less?!?! Horror!!!*

*

For 2011, the OASDI tax rate is reduced by 2 percentage points for employees and for self-employed workers, resulting in a 4.2 percent effective tax rate for employees and a 10.4 percent effective tax rate for self-employed workers. The reductions in 2010 and 2011 tax revenue due to lower tax rates will be made up by transfers from the general fund of the Treasury to the OASI and DI trust funds. Beginning in 2013, an additional HI tax of 0.9 percent is assessed on earned income exceeding $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly. This additional HI tax rate is not reflected in the tax rates shown in the table.

So, your worst-case-scenario, is that every wage-earner in the U.S. is self-employed and subject to 15.3% self-employment tax? I don't think so.

Again to answer your question, yes; since the cap is currently at $106,800, that means for you to pay one more dime of SS tax, you would have to make $106,801 or more. No one making less than that will pay a dime more... And yes, I think the cap should be removed. And even if they removed the cap for the 50% of it that is paid by the employee, but left the cap in-place for the employer, so that the employer's responsibility would NOT CHANGE, it would still fund the program for the next 100 years...)

LadyJazzer wrote: Where do you get 15.3% increase on SS taxes by removing the cap?...I'm not arguing it--I'm just asking how you arrive at that figure....

I think he is assuming you pay 12.4% (split with employeer) for SS plus 2.9% for Medicare. But if so, he is mistaken in that Medicare payments are not capped as is SS. So removing the SS cap would increase taxes 12.4%.

See my edits above....

pineinthegrass wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: Where do you get 15.3% increase on SS taxes by removing the cap?...I'm not arguing it--I'm just asking how you arrive at that figure....

I think he is assuming you pay 12.4% (split with employeer) for SS plus 2.9% for Medicare. But if so, he is mistaken in that Medicare payments are not capped as is SS. So removing the SS cap would increase taxes 12.4%.

Yes...I forgot medicare isn't currently capped, so it would be a 12.4% tax increase. Doesn't matter if you are self employed or not. If the cap is removed, the cost of employing you goes up 12.4%, doesn't matter who pays it, ultimately it comes out of your check. It just matters on who sends it to the govt.

Yes, it only applies to people making over $106....but those are the people who own businesses and employ people. I don't know about you, but a poor person has never hired me.