More important than who gets credit, or "The Photo"....

Is what did the Pakistani government know and when did it know it regarding Osama bin Laden's whereabouts?

This is a dangerous country, armed with nuclear weapons, that appears to be playng both sides of the fence. It is pretty unimaginable that they had no knowledge, as they claim, that he was living there. In fact, recent breaking news indicates many of his family members were living in the mansion when it was attacked. How did all these people get into Pakistan without the government knowing? Or were they so dumb that when bin Laden's wife and children started showing up they couldn't put two and two together?

How should we proceed, policy-wise, in the light of the emerging fact that our so-called "Allie" was not forthcoming with us on this issue?

We need Pakistan as long as we are in Afghanistan. They are our land line (as shaky as it is). Once we are out, just start supporting India, and the problem will take of itself.

We have to do the Politically Correct thing and refuse to get in their taxicabs.

Gunny wrote: We need Pakastan as long as we are in Afghanistan. They are our land line (as shaky as it is). Once we are out, just start supporting India, and the problem will take take of itself.

Great post, practical reality.

I don't see why that is more important AV. Pakistan is going to look out for its own interests, just as we are. Diplomacy can be a much less expensive means of conducting war, as the Byzantines proved so well. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, remember? Is it so surprising that Pakistan would pretend to ally themselves with us while at the same time taking steps which might protect them when we become as tired and broke as the Soviets were after their Afghan adventures?

Of course Pakistan is willing to act nice and accept our money - a fool and their money are soon parted aren't they? At some point Pakistan is going to stop getting as much, or any, money from us. Do you blame Pakistan for taking advantage when it served their interests to do so? Did we not partner with a scorpion nation during WWII for the exact same reasons?

The problem, of course, is that such alliances inevitably result in once former allies turning on each other once there is no longer a common enemy. It happened in Afghanistan in the wake of the Soviet pullout, did it not? If you are the government of Pakistan, and the executive of the US has already said that troops will be leaving starting on a certain date, would you not also be seeking a way to maintain the current government from being taken over by the Taliban after they left? Blaming Pakistan, instead of our own foreign policy blunders, is a bit foolish when you get down to the brass tacks of it, don't you think?

PrintSmith wrote: I don't see why that is more important AV. Pakistan is going to look out for its own interests, just as we are. Diplomacy can be a much less expensive means of conducting war, as the Byzantines proved so well. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, remember? Is it so surprising that Pakistan would pretend to ally themselves with us while at the same time taking steps which might protect them when we become as tired and broke as the Soviets were after their Afghan adventures?

Of course Pakistan is willing to act nice and accept our money - a fool and their money are soon parted aren't they? At some point Pakistan is going to stop getting as much, or any, money from us. Do you blame Pakistan for taking advantage when it served their interests to do so? Did we not partner with a scorpion nation during WWII for the exact same reasons?

The problem, of course, is that such alliances inevitably result in once former allies turning on each other once there is no longer a common enemy. It happened in Afghanistan in the wake of the Soviet pullout, did it not? If you are the government of Pakistan, and the executive of the US has already said that troops will be leaving starting on a certain date, would you not also be seeking a way to maintain the current government from being taken over by the Taliban after they left? Blaming Pakistan, instead of our own foreign policy blunders, is a bit foolish when you get down to the brass tacks of it, don't you think?

I expected a better response than that from you, PS.

The essential rule of diplomacy is that you have to make it possible for your allies to pretend you are dealing straight with them. Pakistan has broken that rule and it could have serious consequences to the balance of relationships in that part of the world.

Oh well, back to the really "important" issues....

Any news on the Birth Certificate?

Gunny wrote: We need Pakistan as long as we are in Afghanistan. They are our land line (as shaky as it is). Once we are out, just start supporting India, and the problem will take of itself.

Good point! Is there now any reason for us to continue our presence in Afghanistan?

AspenValley wrote: Any news on the Birth Certificate?

Did you miss it last week? After 3 years of being asked, and coincidentally right before giving the go ahead for the bin Laden raid, Obama finally got around to releasing the document that had been requested of him during the last presidential campaign.

Of course, Obama is still suppressing his college applications and his passport records for his trip to Pakistan so that we all may be assured he never professed allegiance to another nation when he was an adult, and he continues to suppress his college thesis and his Illinois Senate records. The 042 Social Security number remains unaddressed, as do the allegations that his Selective Service documents were fudged after he decided to pursue a career in politics - but hey, the first brick in the wall of suppression has finally been removed, so there is hope that the rest of the wall will fall before the elections of 2012.

Caveat emptor is just as applicable to diplomacy as it is to commercial transactions AV. When you spend you money thinking, as opposed to knowing, what it is you are purchasing with your dollars you can never be assured of what it is those dollars have purchased. You would agree with me that we attempted to purchase Pakistan's cooperation, wouldn't you?

No, I meant anything NEW about the Birth Certificate....No one, not even those living in huts in the backwoods of Alaska could have missed all the meaningless sound and fury of last week.

I presume you missed my irony.

And i guess it is too much to ask to get anyone to talk about what the actual results and repercussions of the Osama bin Laden raid, other than the all important question of whether we really have Bush to thank for it.

How much money will Obama spend to keep the photo sequestered? I think Obama is saving the photo for the next WAG THE DOG episode.