Guns do serve a purpose

I don't think that the soldiers of this country would abandon their oaths to the US Constitution that easily. Some people seem to think that they would turn traitor at the first sign of revolution. I don't think they would. I think they would protect America against the few that would try to tear down the United States of America. If someone thinks that a ragtag group of rebels could take an ammo dump or military base with ease, that person has been watching WAY too many Hollywood movies.

Soulshiner wrote: I don't think that the soldiers of this country would abandon their oaths to the US Constitution that easily. Some people seem to think that they would turn traitor at the first sign of revolution. I don't think they would. I think they would protect America against the few that would try to tear down the United States of America. If someone thinks that a ragtag group of rebels could take an ammo dump or military base with ease, that person has been watching WAY too many Hollywood movies.

The few you speak of, are in the whitehouse...

Science Chic wrote:

PrintSmith wrote:

Science Chic wrote: Hey! Have you ever seen the movie Outbreak? All it takes is for the government to convince the pilots that they are doing it to protect the rest of the country, whether it's the truth or not (ie, whether there really is an outbreak - they can feed false info to the media anytime they want) and, bam, it's done. Unless someone's got enough surface-to-air missiles in their garage...

Not saying that this is likely, only that it's possible.

What I think you are forgetting is that the pilots of the F15s, A10s and KC135s down at Buckley Field are the same pilots that are flying 737s between Denver and Chicago. The aircraft maintenance crews for those warbirds are the same guys doing the maintenance on the commercial fleet flying out of DIA or servicing the planes that fly out of Centennial airport. The civilians have an awful lot of knowledge about their local National Guard bases. They spend a weekend a month and a couple weeks each year keeping themselves current. They know where the armory is, where the ammo dump is, where the keys to the transports and tanks are kept, where the fuel dump is. Buckley Field would fall very quickly, as would the National Guard armory in Globeville. A few patriots at Ft. Carson is all that would be needed to gain control of that quickly as well. We still have a well regulated militia composed of the citizens of Colorado SC. The people of this nation retain the ability to alter or abolish their current form of government at any time of their choosing despite all the sophistication of the modern weapons.

We have a lot of missiles, bombs, tanks, artillery and planes in our garages here in Colorado, and we have lots of Colorado citizens who know precisely how to use them.

I did not forget. How would we citizens know to retaliate until the unthinkable happens? How long do you think it would take the government to drop bombs on key sites, beef up security at critical locations, and for civilians to efficiently organize and mobilize in response? I doubt that us taking over key ammo dumps would be quick, or that we'd avoid protracted bloodshed against our government. You speak of CO citizens and locations, I'm thinking nationwide.

There will be plenty of warning, just as there was in Egypt, Poland and even here back in 1776. It starts with written protests, escalates to street protests and finally results in actual civil war if the government doesn't listen. The unthinkable is likely to be kicked off by the seizing of the armories and bases by the civilian soldiers, the modern day militia of the states, not by a first strike by the central government.

bailey bud wrote: Of course firearms have a purpose.....

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Why do you think this works in Switzerland and do you think there is a snowball's chance of it working in the US so we could reduce our standing army?

Federal law requires everyone who enlists or re-enlists in the Armed Forces of the United States to take the enlistment oath. The oath of enlistment into the United States Armed Forces:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Enemies, foreign and domestic. Good luck.

And what do you suppose happens when the member of the armed services comes to the realization that the President and the officers appointed over them are the domestic enemy that they have sworn to defend the Constitution against.

That oath does not supersede what is contained in the second paragraph of our Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

When the consent of the governed is removed from an existing government, it no longer has the power to continue to govern them. The oath is no longer valid with respect to the president because the president no longer has the legitimate power, which is solely derived from the people and their consent to be governed by the government the president represents, to command.

We have several boys in the militaryat this time, and most of us have served. we will not be told by a corrupt tyrannical gov to go against our brothers and sisters.
Doubt that many if any would as well.
Those that might would be dealt with swiftly.

What possible reason does anyone have for this scenario? That a party other than your own holds power? Have we gone so far from the founders vision that we are unable to see that compromise and acceptance are the very foundation of our republic? Very sad. Alternatively there is a steady population who think life is a video game and war at home would be " great fun". Nothing like imposing your values at the point of your gun. It's sickening to me that so many find war appealing and romantic.

RockDoc - I'm moving a little outside of my area of experience/expertise.

I've noticed that most Northern European countries have some kind of similar model of mandatory service.

The populations of those countries tend to be a little more homogeneous in their social and political values.

I also noticed that each individual is given a clip of 10 rounds - and that's pretty much it - so I think it would be hard to leap to my own conclusion (1,000 rounds).

So - while it's plausible that this could be a model for the USA - it's a real stretch.

It was convenient for rhetorical purposes.

That said, I believe in an armed citizenry - it protects us from dictatorship.

Our military is primarily about full employment. Get rid of the military - you miss out on millions of jobs.
(and billions of dollars in military contracting).

The Swiss are issued 50 rounds of 5.56, and 48 of 9mm. These are the military issued rounds. They must practice monthly at the range and rounds bough there do not count.
Personal guns like hunting rifles long guns .22 etc are not subject to sales controls.
(from one of the gun forums)