Great video about Israel's borders. Very informative

CriticalBill wrote: You could call me a hypocrit if you knew by views on Israel but you don't. I disagreed with Bush and Clinton because no matter how much Israel gives, it will never be enough. Until Hamas and the rest of the Jew haters declare that Israel has the right to exist, (which will never happen) Israeli leaders have a duty to protect their people. If you actually watched the video, which I doubt, I wonder how you would divide the country without leaving the Israelis vulnerable to easy attacks.

I could never answer that question, the video is hardly a complete "history of Israel and the Palestinian conflict". I don't know what I don't know, and would not presume that I did. Nor do I understand military operations and defense, I really do try not to give an opinion on things I don't totally understand, other than to comment on what I read here. I'm just not sure the posters here understand a whole lot more.....but I'll defer to their opinions.

This whole thread is strange because I'm not hearing much more than emotion and sympathy for Israel, but not concrete ideas except that Obama was wrong. I don't know if he is wrong or right....but if he is wrong, then the US has been wrong all along through many presidents. If every president has been wrong....then who is right.....you? nmysys? major bean? do you all understand this issue better than Obama and the past presidents? I know I don't.

Oh, forgot to mention, I would love to see a video from the "other side" showing why Israel should go back to the 1967 borders. It sure would help to form an opinion.

The video is hype and hysteria.

bailey bud wrote: The video is hype and hysteria.

That doesn't help me much.....you probably have more knowledge of that region than most here.....what are your opinions on what Israel and the palestinians need to do to achieve some kind of peace? do you think it can ever be done?

edited to add....I probably need the grade school version.

If I were to generalize, I'd say the conflict in the region is fueled by mutual fear.

I think I'd start with Gold Meir's quote

Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us

I like Meir's thinking, but I'd add,
"Peace will come when Israel fears for the future of Arabs, instead of fearing for themselves"

I think a commitment to non-violence is vital for the future (the prospects for that are not all that good).

I'm a poor example of non-violence, but I don't see many other good prospects for peace.

The examples of people like Sami Awad and Jonathan Shapira are some of the things that give me hope.

Here's an encouraging link:

http://www.holylandtrust.org/index.php? ... Itemid=309

The Palestinians have said that the only way there will be peace is when there is no state of Israel. Until they get to a point where they will accept that Israel will exist, there cannot be compromise.

2wlady:

Not sure I'd characterize Palestine's views that way.

Most of the anti-Israeli sentiment in Palestine comes from Hamas, which controls Gaza (an absolutely inhumane region). Hamas is firmly anti-Israeli, while the more liberal Fatah is more nationalistic/ pro-Palestine (there's a difference).

Does Hamas want to be rid of Israel

---

let's look at their public stance:
(which I'd characterize as a "first offer")

Hamas later publicly offered a long-term truce with Israel if Israel agreed to return to its 1967 borders and grant the "right of return" to all Palestinian refugees. In November 2008, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh re-stated that Hamas was willing to accept a Palestinian state within the 1949 armistice lines, and offered Israel a long-term truce "if Israel recognized the Palestinians' national rights."

For Israel, the position is a non-starter:

a) The current Prime Minister has made it clear he'll never support the 1967 borders.
b) The current Prime Minister has made it clear he has no interest in the "right of return."

The question is, does Hamas have a history of keeping promises? So if Israel was to give up an elevated border, how well do you think the Israelis would sleep at night given the history of Hamas and it's anti-Israeli allies?

Hamas is viewed as a terrorist group (so is Hezbollah).

That said, I think they both have a track record of announcing their violent intentions (and carrying them out). So in a really strange kind of way - yes - I think they do what they say they're going to do.

That doesn't remove the fact that they're a terrorist organization (I'd agree that they are).

If Hezbollah announced they have no interest in elevating their engagement with Israel, I'd likely believe them.