The most dangerous idea ever: why the tea party is...

14 Jun 2011 22:29 #1 by ScienceChic
http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/2011/0 ... l-sort-of/
The most dangerous idea ever: why the tea party is right after all. Sort of.
Posted on June 13, 2011 by Otherwise

Sure, most countries have elements of the American solution. Many countries now have peaceful exchanges of power decided by voters.

But we were the ones who first put it all together. Just as Alfred Nobel figured out how to mix volatile nitroglycerine with diatomaceous earth to create the equally powerful but more stable explosive dynamite, the Founders managed to take an inherently dangerous set of ideas and make them stable. You need only look at the French Revolution to see what can happen when those same ideas are dropped on a concrete floor.

The diatomaceous earth in this case is a uniquely American hatred of government. In America, you can belong to three political camps. Those who hate big centralized government, those who hate small decentralized government, and those who hate all government, big or small, here or there, everywhere. Nobody else hates government the way we do. Those who hate small decentralized governments support a strong central government. Those who hate big central governments want the states to have more power. And those who hate both are libertarians. Throughout our history we have gone back and forth and back and forth.

In theory each of those three systems make sense. In theory, a large central government should be the most efficient solution, avoiding duplication of effort and ensuring national competitiveness. In theory, strong states should provide local responsiveness and specialization, a la Ricardo, and allow the best ideas to win. And in theory, laissez faire economics and minimalist government should allow greater personal freedom and economic growth.

We have tested the theory on the first two, but the problem is we (meaning humankind) have never tried the libertarian solution. Rand and Paul and Rand Paul may be full of sh**, but we will never really know, because what they propose has never been tried.

We know the other two solutions don’t work, at least in their pure forms. The 100 percent model of a strong centralized government, e.g. Communism , doesn’t work. Very strong central governments end up stifling innovation and producing moribund economies. We also know that smaller decentralized governments don’t work. Isolated state governments inevitably turn into nasty little Balkan oligarchies with persecution of one minority or another. But no one has tried no-government solution, at least in modern times.

Personally, I doubt most Tea Partiers really want a truly libertarian government. Go to a Tea Party, sit beside someone and say that we should downsize the government and start with ending Medicare. Or Social Security. Or national defense. Or farm supports. Or highway construction. It won’t take you long to find a government program they’re in favor of. And of course when you add them all up, you end up right where we are now, which is why the new Tea Party Republicans aren’t really going very hard after entitlements. Lots of thunder, but no lightning there.

However, to be fair, we can’t say they’re wrong because we just haven’t ever tried it.

So if a truly Libertarian government isn't what is desired, then what is exactly, and how do we get there?

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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14 Jun 2011 23:10 #2 by Blazer Bob
I did not follow the link but I did try and read your quote.

My first thought is that whoever wrote it is a good example of someone who's education far exceeds his intelligence. He spews straw men faster than Archer.

My second thought is, do not expect me to defend this in the morning.

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15 Jun 2011 07:19 #3 by FredHayek
It is all about whose ox is getting gored. Like the article says, the TEA party approves of the goverment that is helping them out, like Social Security.

And just like the other side, the Left likes goverment to solve problems, unless it is infringing on their liberties to protect them, like the Patriot Act.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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15 Jun 2011 08:12 #4 by Rick
It's difficult to want to a see a ponzi scheme go away when you've been "contributing" to it all your life and would like to get at least a little something back.

The left is angry because they are now being judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

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15 Jun 2011 09:17 #5 by BearMtnHIB
I read the quote - and at first I thought this person is right. But then I thought about it for a minute and now I'm thinking this guy is wrong- well sorta.

We actually did try exactly - the idea that Libertarians want. The year was 1776. This type of limited government existed up till generally the civil war era in the 1860's.

History has it recorded as one of the most successful experiments in human existance. Government was limited to only those functions outlined in the documents that founded the USA. It worked so well that in less than 100 years, we went from being an outcast colony with little to nothing and became a powerful country capable of providing economic and political freedom the likes of which the world has never seen.

People from all over the world aspired to come to this land- to escape oppressive conditions and live a better life. We did this with what were those other countries "rejects". We were the envy of the world.

In fact- I remember it somthing like this....

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Then we started to "tinker" with the idea- we started to "add" this and that, and eventually we made exceptions, compromise, and then started in on what only could be described as bastardizing the original idea. Eventually we abandoned it all together "for the good of the people".

All Libertarians want is to start down a road to restoring that original idea, shed ourselves of the corrupt version we have allowed ourselves to develop, and eventually return to those ideals that history has PROVEN works. It requires everybody to be on board- it requires little compromise because the system was already well defined.

We have tried it- and it worked better than they (founding fathers) could have ever imagined beyond their wildest dreams!

Then we screwed it all up.

(PS- read my signature)

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15 Jun 2011 09:39 #6 by UNDER MODERATION
Replied by UNDER MODERATION on topic The most dangerous idea ever: why the tea party is...

Personally, I doubt most Tea Partiers really want a truly libertarian government. Go to a Tea Party, sit beside someone and say that we should downsize the government and start with ending Medicare. Or Social Security. Or national defense. Or farm supports. Or highway construction. It won’t take you long to find a government program they’re in favor of. And of course when you add them all up, you end up right where we are now, which is why the new Tea Party Republicans aren’t really going very hard after entitlements. Lots of thunder, but no lightning there.


It's so ridiculous isn't it?...All the structures of a civilised society..Gone! lol ...I'm here to tell all you tough talking Tea Baggers something..When i'm 75 and can't work, and can't feed myself or lil precious..I'm gonna buy a gun, shot you, and take your food. ok? If you wanna live, you better keep SS and Medicare around or it's all gonna blow up..

Thats the most idiotic thing about these tea baggers, they think they can live in the horrible world they wanna create. Like they are gonna be able to have anything, go anywhere, or do anything?

Everybody is living off the government ..Everybody
http://exiledonline.com/teabagger-queen ... n-welfare/













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15 Jun 2011 09:50 #7 by bailey bud
I'm no fan of liberal tax/spend policies. I'm Republican. That said - the tea party bugs me.

My personal opinion is that it often feels like self-indulgence, masquarading as patriotism -
aided in part by borrowed faith-based cliche.

For me - some of the Tea Party rhetoric reminds me of Hitler's rise to power in the 30s.

No - I don't think we should ban it. No - I'm not in a panic.

I simply think the GOP needs to find a more sustainable, reasonable cause.

That said - I'm not optimistic that the GOP will succeed in finding a sustainable, reasonable cause -
and I do suspect that our actions and fiscal policies (GOP and Democrat, both) - will drive America into
moral and economic bankruptcy.

Historically, the only way the USA has found its way out of nasty economic cycles - is large-scale war.

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15 Jun 2011 09:52 - 15 Jun 2011 09:57 #8 by HEARTLESS
SC, many want to portray Libertarians as anarchists, but it isn't true. All that I know, want restored individual freedoms, less wasteful government, less intrusive government, etc. The goal is to take us away from impending doom and assured failure created by the current adoption of socialism. Its been happening for many generations and by both parties. Socialism destroys incentive of individuals, promotes reliance on government, wastefulness, false economies, centralized power and so on.

The silent majority will be silent no more.

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15 Jun 2011 09:54 #9 by HEARTLESS
As usual, dribble brained VL will blame others for his own failings. Hep me, hep me mighty Odumbo.

The silent majority will be silent no more.

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15 Jun 2011 09:58 #10 by Rick

bailey bud wrote:
For me - some of the Tea Party rhetoric reminds me of Hitler's rise to power in the 30s.

Sorry BB, but I have to call you out on this one. WTF are you talking about? Please explain to me why a large group of people who are tired of the failed government status quo and want to see some real changes are like Hitler's rise to power. And please don't give some isolated anecdotal evidence.

The left is angry because they are now being judged by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin.

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