Obama's secret Doc appointment survey

PrintSmith wrote: Of course doctors are going to be less willing to accept less payment for their services SC. Do you know of anyone who would rather receive less money for their services? You need to fund a government study to come to this basic common sense conclusion? Really?

rofllol I'm sure Obama's crack team will come up with a commitee to study that soon. (Hey, more jobs created!)

SC, you truly believe that insurance companies can lower costs significantly? The costs are set by the providers, the insurance companies pay the bill they negotiate with the providers. Using them as real insurance instead of comprehensive all-inclusive HC bill payers may help reduce some overhead costs and premiums, but that is not proposed by anyone. Its going the other direction I believe with the government mandated essential benefits package that you are forced to buy under threat of the IRS.

Science Chic wrote:

PrintSmith wrote: Of course doctors are going to be less willing to accept less payment for their services SC. Do you know of anyone who would rather receive less money for their services? You need to fund a government study to come to this basic common sense conclusion? Really?

I know! Unbelievable huh?! I was thinking that free market effect would occur and private insurance companies would start having to lower their costs of doing business in order to compete as prices are artificially inflated now as is. Is that an erroneous assumption?

Free market effect could happen if/when the government decides to let the health insurance industry become a free market and compete across state lines.

The primary reason that your automobile insurance remains at least semi-affordable is that it is an individual policy whose price is determined to a fair extent on how much you as an individual cost the insurance company. Oh sure, the actuarial tables include your age, how many miles a year you drive and other such things to put you into a basic risk classification, but AllState is now offering you a check twice a year if you don't make any claims and Nationwide is reducing your deductible amount for every year that you don't make a claim.

Get rid of the state-by-state laundry list of what every policy must include before it can be sold in that state (open up the market) and allow people and companies to purchase the level of insurance they wish to have for themselves and their families. I have no need of maternity coverage after all, nor coverage for substance abuse, mental health care or even to help cover the cost of my yearly wellness exam, let alone pay 100% of the cost of it. I'm willing to take the gamble on a $1 Million ceiling on benefits to lower the cost of the insurance - heck, I'd love to be able to purchase a policy with half that amount as a ceiling.

Return health insurance to being insurance instead of a blended insuance/prepaid medical policy and you might actually have consumers who look into the cost of an office visit before making an appointment and force the doctors to compete in the marketplace as well. As long as you neither know nor care what that office visit costs because it is the same cost to you to visit a doctor that charges 2x what another one does for an office visit, the cost isn't going to be coming down anytime soon.

Do you think people would start driving less if it only cost them a $10 copay to fill their tank regardless of what the price at the pump was? Of course not. Expense is one of the factors in consumption. The majority of your expense is to the insurance company so it is natural for you to care about and monitor that price. The price to see the doctor is fixed - regardless of what the total cost is and regardless of how many times you go see the doctor.

Don't know how it was in your family, but I have vivid memories of my father taking the black and yellow flashlight down from above the refrigerator and looking down my throat to determine whether or not an appointment at the doctor's office should be made. The reason that he did this was because the first $X for medical treatment for the family came out of the family budget and he had 5 kids to feed, clothe and shelter. I remember mom asking the doctor to show her what he was seeing when he said I was fine so that she would have a better understanding of whether or not I actually needed to see the doctor. I remember riding the bus from Hampden/Monaco to downtown Denver (when I had the flu) to see Dr. McDonald because he charged a lot less than Dr. Schmidt whose office was within walking distance. Those health decisions were made by my parents because of the very market effect the government is attempting to do away with. If you want market effect, you have to have a free market, not a grossly over regulated one.

wow PS....that post sounds like one of those "I had to walk to school 5 miles, uphill, both ways" stories we tell our kids when they complain about walking to the school bus stop.

Belittle the messenger, ignore the message.

Joe wrote: SC, you truly believe that insurance companies can lower costs significantly? The costs are set by the providers, the insurance companies pay the bill they negotiate with the providers. Using them as real insurance instead of comprehensive all-inclusive HC bill payers may help reduce some overhead costs and premiums, but that is not proposed by anyone. Its going the other direction I believe with the government mandated essential benefits package that you are forced to buy under threat of the IRS.

When I've asked why there is a difference in price between what is charged to insurance companies versus paying cash, I was told that the insurance company tells them what they will pay them as the provider. That info was from the provider.

jf1acai wrote: Belittle the messenger, ignore the message.

I was trying for an amusing comment.....you have been on a tear today with one snide comment after another, no matter the thread. What's up? you are not usually this grumpy.

archer wrote: wow PS....that post sounds like one of those "I had to walk to school 5 miles, uphill, both ways" stories we tell our kids when they complain about walking to the school bus stop.

Simply an anecdotal example of how tying price to consumption helps keep the cost down, which is the free market effect that SC was looking for.

FWIW, I got to walk downhill one way when I walked to and from the bus stop as a child. The downhill part was in the morning, when I was well rested and refreshed. Coming up that hill to go from the bus stop to home was not fun because it was uphill the entire way - must have been at least 2 miles, or two entire blocks anyway - which given my short stride as a child felt every bit of 2 miles. I even had to cross a busy street, with not traffic lights and no crossing guards. It's amazing I survived my childhood given all the extreme dangers we had to face back in the day.

At least you had a bus to walk to.....I didn't. And this was outside Buffalo, NY......back then girls had to wear skirts to school.....through the 3 ft drifts of damp wet lake effect snow.....just about 2 miles each way.....but it was flat.....

sorry, this was all off topic.....but your post just struck me that way and I had to comment. Sorry jf1 took offense at it, none was intended.