Who still thinks there will be an economic "recovery"?

I thinks the American voter needs to wake up and stop putting the same stooges of the banks into office. Democrat or Republican-they are all the same. When we stand up and demand action- stop being distracted by all the petty partisan bickering and fight about stuff that really matters (hint not birth certificates or Bush) then we can restore our economy.

Joe wrote: I think we will eventually struggle through and get a 2-3% growth recovery. It would probably come quicker if we had optimistic forward thinking leaders with a "can-do" positive attitude. Instead we have partisian bickering, class-warfare, and blame game. I recommend listening to Warren Buffett for an example of the way a true leader should speak. None of the leaders we have today remind me of Buffett, or Reagan or JFK. More like Carters and Nixons. Or the Three Stooges. And with the meat grinders the media puts candidates thru 24/7 it is doubtful we will get good candidates.

Interesting post.

In your first sentence, you talk about getting to "growth". In my opinion, the reason the economy has permanently stalled is because we've reached the limits of growth. Most importantly, we've reached, or nearly reached, peak oil production. Even Goldman Sachs thinks so, and doubts that Saudi Arabia can be the "swing" producer to cover supply bottlenecks any longer. JP Morgan is buying as much $100 barrels of futures as it can get its hands on. Without a growing supply of oil, the only way to have a "growth" in the economy is to inflate another bubble somehow. So do you realize that when you talk about "getting to growth" you are really talking about getting to another bubble? How did that work out for us last time?

Then you go on to complain about things like the "class warfare". And interestingly, in the same breath praise Warren Buffett. You mean the Warren Buffett who acknowledges there IS a class war going on, and also admits that it is HIS class, the billionaire class, that is waging it. THAT Warren Buffett? Or maybe you're trying to say that it's okay for the billionaires to wage war on the 99.99% of society who are not billionaires but NOT okay for the 99.99% of us to wage class war on the billionaires? As I said, interesting indeed.

It irritates me when the news is always comparing where we were to where we are...and asking questions about when we'll get "back" there...or "back to normal". I think where we are IS the new normal.

Embrace where we are now and look at different ways of doing business...doing the same thing over again and expecting different results...isn't that the definition of insanity?

I have been hearing these tales of impending doom since the 70's but now am starting to believe not only America, but the whole planet is on a downward trend, you will see the infrastructure around us start to break down and there will be no money to repair it.

SS109 wrote: I have been hearing these tales of impending doom since the 70's but now am starting to believe not only America, but the whole planet is on a downward trend, you will see the infrastructure around us start to break down and there will be no money to repair it.

The reason we've been hearing these "tales" since the 70s is that was when it started to become clear to many that we were in a precarious condition as regards dependence on a paradigm of limitless growth. There has been some argument as to how fast, how soon, that the paradigm would fail, but since then no one has seriously been able to rebut the fact that the paradigm itself is doomed.

Ever read "Limits to Growth", which was published in the early 1970s? It was scoffed at by many back then, much the same way that climate change is scoffed at by some today, but I re-read it a year or so ago and it was simply stunning how prescient the authors were.

Oil industry expert Matthew Simmons (now deceased) was quoted on the cover of the 2004 edition:

"It is time for the world to re-read Limits to Growth! The message of 1972 is more real and relevant in 2004, and we wasted 30 valuable years of action by misreading the message of the first book."

I think as long we allow ourselves to get fooled again and chase the next money maker that the investors try to create in order to shave a buck off the top, we'll never learn. History shows we never learn.

S&L crisis in 80's/90's
Credit Crunch or Global Financial Crisis of the early 2000's leading us to where we are now.

I agree with Joe.... I think once again, the general public is allowing itself to be fooled by some who are trying to influence politics. The people are falling into the trap and fighting amongst themselves instead of keeping an eye on our elected officials and holding them accountable.

I like Warren Buffett because of his optimism. Haven't heard him play the class warfare game, just that he thinks the tax code is a mess and I agree with him. I also know many in the middle class that did it right and are living ok. Buy a home you can afford, fixed mortgage, save for retirement, live within your means, etc. Lots of people do it right.

As for growth, I think it is constrained now by low consumer demand more than high energy costs. No more home equity binges and now we are net savers which isn't all bad either. Energy could play a part too someday, but if we were smarter energy could create jobs here and lower our trade deficit.

Warren Buffett on class warfare, taxes, and the growing deficit - in 2006:

“There’s class warfare, all right,” Mr. Buffett said, “but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/26/busin ... every.html

Joe wrote: I like Warren Buffett because of his optimism. Haven't heard him play the class warfare game, just that he thinks the tax code is a mess and I agree with him. I also know many in the middle class that did it right and are living ok. Buy a home you can afford, fixed mortgage, save for retirement, live within your means, etc. Lots of people do it right.

As for growth, I think it is constrained now by low consumer demand more than high energy costs. No more home equity binges and now we are net savers which isn't all bad either. Energy could play a part too someday, but if we were smarter energy could create jobs here and lower our trade deficit.

We are one of those that "did it right". We feel very fortunate as we have paid off all debt and continue to pay extra against the mortgage during all this and we'll have our 15 year mortgage paid off this year, in less than 8 years. Saved a ton of money on interest and we will not have to worry about a mortgage. We are feeling good about the future for us, but we have always stayed within our means and paid cash or if by credit card, then paid off each month.

I think oil will keep us down, as long as we continue to make believe it's endless and bountiful.

I've been doing the same thing for the last 5 years...Paying extra against the mortgage every month...It will be paid off in 3-1/2 years, right at the time when I plan to retire. All of my credit cards will be paid off by early next year; the car will be paid off in July, 2012. I also recently did a major kitchen-remodel, and that will be paid off the same time the mortgage is paid off... In short, I'll be debt-free when I retire, around December, 2014. Yep, I'm saving a ton on interest, and given the number of companies I have worked for that have either gone belly-up, or been merged or bought out by others, I can't believe I'm still surviving. I should even wind up with a bit in the 401K... Not as much as I should have, but enough to put with my Social Security to get by...

(You know, that Social Security that people like PS think I shouldn't get, and he shouldn't have to pay for....?) Deal with it.