The Worlds most Decorated Historian says

HEARTLESS wrote: Would one of the Left help VL to argue just one side of the discussion. Most liberals support Keynesian theory, govt intervention, not free market (capitalist) economics.

Maybe someone needs to explain to you that Keynesian theory IS a capitalist theory, one of many. And like them all, it's far from perfect.

HEARTLESS wrote: We're about to crash. Radical/extreme viewpoint, hit the brakes and turn the steering wheel.

Is this a quote from January 20th 2008?

AspenValley wrote: Interesting.

Yes, I would say that most of the positions and actions Obama has taken would be typical of a moderately conservative viewpoint.

I'd also agree that the moderately conservative viewpoint describes the majority of people in America.

The trouble seems to come about because there is a sizable minority of people whose politics are way to the far right (over-represented on this forum however), who imagine that THEIR views are the default, the typical, the "normal" viewpoint of most of America. When in fact their views are, well, way to the far right. They imagine theirs are the "normal" ones because they mostly associate with people with the same views, in their homes and in their churches, in their sorted-by-income-and-political-party neighborhoods.

In other words, they don't have a clue what the rest of America looks like, or what a "moderate" view looks like. Anything even slightly less far right than their views seem to be extremely far to the left.

So they don't understand that their views aren't the majority views, aren't the "default American" views, and what's more, they look at someone like Obama who is as near to a centrist as any President we've recently seen, and see not a moderate but a "dangerous" far-left radical.

I'd go through and change all the 'right' to 'left' and 'conservative' to 'liberal' to show it happens at both extremes, but it's not worth the time to cut'n'paste it.

AV, you're always pushing supply side theory not demand side. Explain that without govt intervention.

Nobody that matters wrote:

AspenValley wrote: Interesting.

Yes, I would say that most of the positions and actions Obama has taken would be typical of a moderately conservative viewpoint.

I'd also agree that the moderately conservative viewpoint describes the majority of people in America.

The trouble seems to come about because there is a sizable minority of people whose politics are way to the far right (over-represented on this forum however), who imagine that THEIR views are the default, the typical, the "normal" viewpoint of most of America. When in fact their views are, well, way to the far right. They imagine theirs are the "normal" ones because they mostly associate with people with the same views, in their homes and in their churches, in their sorted-by-income-and-political-party neighborhoods.

In other words, they don't have a clue what the rest of America looks like, or what a "moderate" view looks like. Anything even slightly less far right than their views seem to be extremely far to the left.

So they don't understand that their views aren't the majority views, aren't the "default American" views, and what's more, they look at someone like Obama who is as near to a centrist as any President we've recently seen, and see not a moderate but a "dangerous" far-left radical.

I'd go through and change all the 'right' to 'left' and 'conservative' to 'liberal' to show it happens at both extremes, but it's not worth the time to cut'n'paste it.

It wouldn't be worth the time because it wouldn't be true. I've never heard people who are far to the left ranting about being the only "real" Americans or "taking back their country". Whatever the delusions the far left may have, they don't seem to run in the direction of imagining everyone thinks just like they do.

HEARTLESS wrote: AV, you're always pushing supply side theory not demand side. Explain that without govt intervention.

Moi? Pushing supply side econonmics?

I think not.

WTH? ARE YOU ALL LOONS?????? The world is really as F-'d-up as I thought!!!!


Barack Obama is a Hard-Core Liberal.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

AspenValley wrote: Whatever the delusions the far left may have, they don't seem to run in the direction of imagining everyone thinks just like they do.

No, they simply feel that everyone else SHOULD think just like they do. They aren't taking back the country, they're trying to take over the country.

And since we're generalizing, most of the far lefties I've personally talked to are quite the eliteists... "I feel this way, and that's the educated, open minded way to feel which puts me a step ahead of the knucle dragging conservatives".

Nobody that matters wrote:

AspenValley wrote: Whatever the delusions the far left may have, they don't seem to run in the direction of imagining everyone thinks just like they do.

No, they simply feel that everyone else SHOULD think just like they do. They aren't taking back the country, they're trying to take over the country.

There's some truth in that, but I'd say people that fall to the left of center tend to be somewhat more accepting of varying viewpoints than those on the right. And thinking that others SHOULD think as you do is not the same as wanting to FORCE them to think as you do, as is implied by your claim that "they're trying to take over the country".

And since we're generalizing, most of the far lefties I've personally talked to are quite the eliteists... "I feel this way, and that's the educated, open minded way to feel which puts me a step ahead of the knucle dragging conservatives".

I'd call the "elitest" argument a fail. It's a common complaint of the right, but I think it may have to do with the fact that higher educational levels are correleated with more liberal views. I'm sure some "far lefties" feel this way but I think it is more a case of an actual perceived difference that leaves some on the right feeling defensive. Also may be the source of the common claim by right-leaners that "common sense" is "better" than education. Whenver you hear someone make that claim you can be pretty sure they are not feeling too terribly secure in their educational attainments.

AspenValley wrote: I'd call the "elitest" argument a fail. It's a common complaint of the right, but I think it may have to do with the fact that higher educational levels are correleated with more liberal views. I'm sure some "far lefties" feel this way but I think it is more a case of an actual perceived difference that leaves some on the right feeling defensive. Also may be the source of the common claim by right-leaners that "common sense" is "better" than education. Whenver you hear someone make that claim you can be pretty sure they are not feeling too terribly secure in their educational attainments.

Is that why conservatives are so anxious to cut spending for education and eliminate student loan programs......they want to keep the population uneducated and voting conservative??????