Sad Day: 31 US Troops killed

A very sad day, indeed.

lionshead2010 wrote: This is, indeed, sad and shocking news. There are many families suffering today. I send my condolences to each and every one.....including the families of those Afghan soldiers lost.

Very sad news. :Crying:

Keeping them and all of thier families in my prayers.

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lionshead2010 wrote: I think it will be a disaster if we leave Afghanistan too soon, but I understand the financial realities our Nation faces right now. My concern is that we try to "half-ass" our effort there. We don't have to drop any nukes. If we leave there now, both Afghanistan and likely Pakistan will implode soon after we depart. The people of those counties will slaughter each other...sort of like what's going on in Africa. So I think it's a bad idea to leave, but I think it's an even WORSE idea to pull some Americans out and leave the rest hanging in the lurch. Like I've said a few times before, we either need to be all in or all out.

Lionshead, if we leave there, and those countries self implode, how does that affect us? Our country isnt doing so well right now. If we bring our guys and girls home to protect our borders and economy, would that be a bad thing? How about bringing our soldiers home and keeping them employed here, not there. I know I am rather simplistic, and the big picture is, well, huge.
What do you think?

Hoot Owl wrote:

lionshead2010 wrote: I think it will be a disaster if we leave Afghanistan too soon, but I understand the financial realities our Nation faces right now. My concern is that we try to "half-ass" our effort there. We don't have to drop any nukes. If we leave there now, both Afghanistan and likely Pakistan will implode soon after we depart. The people of those counties will slaughter each other...sort of like what's going on in Africa. So I think it's a bad idea to leave, but I think it's an even WORSE idea to pull some Americans out and leave the rest hanging in the lurch. Like I've said a few times before, we either need to be all in or all out.

Lionshead, if we leave there, and those countries self implode, how does that affect us? Our country isnt doing so well right now. If we bring our guys and girls home to protect our borders and economy, would that be a bad thing? How about bringing our soldiers home and keeping them employed here, not there. I know I am rather simplistic, and the big picture is, well, huge.
What do you think?

I would say from a strategic standpoint, allowing those two countries to implode would be bad for peace in the entire region. I know there aren't many readily available natural resources there at the time...but the prospect of Pakistan's nuclear weapons falling into the hands of the wrong people gives me the willies. And there is the prospect of terrorist organizations taking up safe haven in the region again..but only after ethnic strife and civil war erases tens of thousands of Afghans. Does that mean I think we should stay and lose another single American life for the region? Nope. Afghanistan has never been tamed and we won't tame it either. We don't have enough young people or treasure to pull it off and our allies are trying to find the door. All you have to do is ask the Brits or Soviets how it went for them last time around. We will be leaving Afghanistan for economic reasons.

Unfortunately, with our economic woes...the young men and women who come home from battle will likely not find work...adding to the rolls of unemployed here. If I'm not mistaken, unemployment amount our young veterans (think 20-28) is somewhere in the 24-26% range...quite a bit higher than the national average right now. The military is going to have to shrink again as we try to balance our budget and that will lead to unemployment among many of our vets. Unfortunate but true. I can tell you that vets are having a hard time finding work after combat. Some have physical injuries but many more have psychological injuries just like in every other war ever fought. These hidden injuries will impede their ability to find solid work as they struggle to translate the skills they acquired in the military in the private sector. Some companies like to boast that they either are or want to hire vets...but I think a lot of that is hot air. The companies can't afford to hire anyone...vet or otherwise.

As the war in Afghanistan winds down over the next few years, our young men and women will have to reintegrate into society here and it may be a tough transition.There are few jobs in the civil sector that offer the kind of adrenaline rush you get when you are out on a combat patrol in enemy territory.

You have to know that Al Quiada thinks it is karma that Seal Team Six took all the casualties after taking out Osama.

Prayers sent for the families.

Losing this many dedicated special forces is a huge blow to our military. It will take years to replace these operators.

Lionshead, thanks for the response. Afghanistan is where many countries have discovered their weakness.

Shouldn't we just build up our National defense and leave them alone?

but the prospect of Pakistan's nuclear weapons falling into the hands of the wrong people gives me the willies

Gives me the the wiilies as well, we are not focused in that direction are we? We battle with Afghanistan, but the danger is Pakistan?

Afghanistan: Billions In Aid Failed to Create Progress

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/0 ... 20133.html

The global community has failed to create a politically stable and economically viable Afghanistan despite pouring billions of dollars into the South Asian nation during a decade-long war against the Taliban, says the International Crisis Group.

A gradual transition of security control to Afghan forces began last month and the ICG said that as the foreign military drawdown progresses toward its end-2014 deadline, donor funding and civilian personnel presence may also decline rapidly.

This decline would undermine "oversight and the sustainability of whatever reconstruction and development achievements there have been," the group said.

So far $57 billion in aid has been spent in Afghanistan, but largely failed to fulfil the pledge to rebuild the country, the report said, and sustainability was "virtually impossible" as only 20 percent had been channeled through the government.

About $29 billion of that had been spent on the Afghan police and army, which "have thus far proved unable to enforce the law, counter the insurgency or even secure the seven regions" recently handed over to them, the report found.

"There is no possibility that any amount of international assistance to the Afghan National Security Forces will stabilize the country in the next three years unless there are significant changes in international strategies, priorities and programs," it said.

The Fundamentals of Counterinsurgency

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/milreview/cohen.pdf

Legitimacy as the main objective. A legitimate government derives its just powers from the governed and competently manages collective security and political, economic, and social development. Legitimate governments are inherently stable. They engender the popular support required to manage internal problems, change, and conflict. Illegitimate governments are inherently unstable. Misguided, corrupt, and incompetent governance inevitably fosters instability. Thus, illegitimate governance is the root cause of and the central strategic problem in today’s unstable global-security environment.

So though our American forces (along with many Coalition forces) have worked dilligently for the past decade to try and make things right in Afghanistan their task is extremely difficult and, in my opinion, one that fighting forces were not designed to do. Our forces cannot make the people of Afghanistan see their government as legitimate. This task really falls at the feet of the State Department led by Secretary Clinton. Our men and women have done their best but time is running out. America and the world simply doesn't have the patience or the money to bring legitimate governance to Afghanistan, much less Pakistan. If we aren't willing to stay for many more years I don't think we can escape the reality of the eventual outcome.

We have so much more to deal with here at home. Yes our men and women have done their best. I dont see how it is our battle. Bring them home and work toward securing our country.

How many countries have nuclear weapons?
How many countries have idiots in charge?

Let's save us.

It doesn't matter if we leave 5 years from now...or 10 years from now... The outcome will be the same...

What DOES make a difference is how many of our own we lose, and how much money we throw down the drain... The longer we wait, the more we waste...of both. We knew this 5 years ago, but everybody is too afraid that the usual folks will break out their "cut and run" banners and bumper-stickers.

Let's save us... If we're going to "rebuild something", let's rebuild us. Let's use the "peace dividend" on our own country. It hasn't been our battle in years. All we do now is mission after mission to cover our own personnel, rescue our own personnel, protect our own personnel...If we weren't there, none of that would be necessary. Obviously, running around the Middle East trying to drop Jeffersonian democracies into tribal, feudal societies is not going to work.