What is poverty in America

Rationalizing the condition of the poor in this country by saying they live better than most of the world is a cop out

I have no interest in rationalizing the condition of the poor. Being in education, I'd like to believe that we help alleviate poverty. But let's get real, here.

Poverty - in the American context simply means "not rich." It is seldom a matter of life and death (I understand that it can be - but that's generally not the case). "We're poor" in America means you have a 15-20 year old car - instead of a 3-5 year old car. "We're poor" means that your dentist gives you fillings instead of new white crowns. "We're poor" in America means that you go to public school, instead of Denver Kent. "We're poor" means you access the internet with your computer in the library instead of at home.

I get it - our population is stratified - and I suppose dramatic stratification can be a challenging thing. (just look behind the football stadium, then drive about 5 miles south).

If we use homelessness as a measure of povery (archer seems to like that definition), "true" poverty in America is relatively rare. Only 1 percent of the American population is homeless. A large fraction of the 1 percent is homeless due to mental illness (social policies won't cure that ). Another big chunk is homeless due to substance abuse (an area where social policies occasionally help).

Poverty in America does not mean that you go hungry for days at a time, die from a simple case of diarrhea, dread mosquito bites (malaria), or put your children into a sweat shop rug factory, because you can't afford to have them in school. Even poor people in America enjoy feed, clothing, health, and shelter.

My family has seen poverty in America - and I've seen poverty elsewhere. I'm not writing it off. However, I'd say that America generally does not experience poverty. In fact - the reason that we don't experience much of it is that our system raises the water level for everyone (rising tide model of economic development).

chickaree wrote: If you think there is no poverty on America then i urge ypu to volunteer at a shelter.

I've done that ----

The clientelle at our shelter are usually there due to:
- spouse abuse (often related to alcohol)
- substance abuse
- mental illness.

All of the above need attention and mitigation.

However - most of the above are rarely mitigated effectively by government programs.

bailey bud wrote:

chickaree wrote: If you think there is no poverty on America then i urge ypu to volunteer at a shelter.

I've done that ----

The clientelle at our shelter are usually there due to:
- spouse abuse (often related to alcohol)
- substance abuse
- mental illness.

All of the above need attention and mitigation.

However - most of the above are rarely mitigated effectively by government programs.

Agree. Sometimes giving money to these people just make things worse.

Funny, I didn't see any mention of "giving money" to:

The clientelle at our shelter are usually there due to:
- spouse abuse (often related to alcohol)
- substance abuse
- mental illness.

....Or is that another "rumor" you heard? ... Or "a friend told you"?

Perhaps if some shelters that provide the needed services get additional funds in the form of grants, then the people that need the services can get them, instead of NOT getting them. How much money have YOU donated to a shelter lateley? This year? Last year?

bailey bud wrote:

Rationalizing the condition of the poor in this country by saying they live better than most of the world is a cop out

I have no interest in rationalizing the condition of the poor. Being in education, I'd like to believe that we help alleviate poverty. But let's get real, here.

Poverty - in the American context simply means "not rich." It is seldom a matter of life and death (I understand that it can be - but that's generally not the case). "We're poor" in America means you have a 15-20 year old car - instead of a 3-5 year old car. "We're poor" means that your dentist gives you fillings instead of new white crowns. "We're poor" in America means that you go to public school, instead of Denver Kent. "We're poor" means you access the internet with your computer in the library instead of at home.

I get it - our population is stratified - and I suppose dramatic stratification can be a challenging thing. (just look behind the football stadium, then drive about 5 miles south).

If we use homelessness as a measure of povery (archer seems to like that definition), "true" poverty in America is relatively rare. Only 1 percent of the American population is homeless. A large fraction of the 1 percent is homeless due to mental illness (social policies won't cure that ). Another big chunk is homeless due to substance abuse (an area where social policies occasionally help).

Poverty in America does not mean that you go hungry for days at a time, die from a simple case of diarrhea, dread mosquito bites (malaria), or put your children into a sweat shop rug factory, because you can't afford to have them in school. Even poor people in America enjoy feed, clothing, health, and shelter.

My family has seen poverty in America - and I've seen poverty elsewhere. I'm not writing it off. However, I'd say that America generally does not experience poverty. In fact - the reason that we don't experience much of it is that our system raises the water level for everyone (rising tide model of economic development).

Wow.

Not what poverty in America is at all.

-Poverty in America is NOT seeing a dentist or a doctor ever, or in severe emergencies.
-Poverty in America is not having a car - period.
-Poverty in America is no computer, no phone, no tv, empty cupboards, no spare clothes.
-Poverty in America is NOT going to any school at all, because you are working to help support little brothers and sisters, who are also not going to school because they don't have the clothing to go to school. (I "lost" several students of mine, back when things were supposedly good in this country, for this exact reason.)
-Poverty in America IS going without food for days, even if you have someplace to sleep that night. It's also having to sleep on a bench or on a grate.

Apparently you are being rather myopic. If you are not one of the first in line and willing or able to forcibly keep your place at the soup kitchen, there is no food for you. Ask at the soup kitchens in Denver - they have a limited supply, and those at the end of the line get NOTHING.

Shelters are still aimed more toward men and have a limited amount of space. Those at the end of the line, and WOMEN AND CHILDREN sleep outside. Those shelters that are geared toward women and children also have limited space, meaning people sleep outside.

I'm still waiting for the free healthcare a couple of you have spoken of - you still get a bill at the emergency room, and last I checked, the low/no income clinics in the Denver area had a 8-10 week waiting period. So yes, people in America go without healthcare.

People in your own damn neighborhood go without healthcare and you don't see it. They go without food, and you cannot see it. They live in fear that someone will tell social services that their power and gas have been shut off, because that makes their home unfit for habitation. So they also don't send their kids to school, and our country has made it easy for people to claim they are homeschooling so they can hide their true financial condition.

Yes, people around here do hide their financial situations, because they deal with people like you who all insist they are lazy, crimminal, idiots or all three because they found themselves in situations they cannot cure, no matter how hard they work. Because you perpetuate a lie so far that you've come to believe it, and when actually faced with reality, you literally are blind to it.

I could literally name names, and you'd be shocked, because you know these people. But I won't, because it is their choice to out themselves or not. And giving a prevailing attitude in this privileged area, I'm going to guess they never will let you know. Because if nothing else, they still have a modicum of their pride left.

In the meantime, I know three families going homeless this week, and one family who has been homeless for a month now. One family will live in a pay by the week hotel for now, until they can get enough money together to afford a new last, first and down, because their landlord let the house they live in go to foreclosure and never told them. Yet he never failed to collect the rent. They are just poor - living paycheck to paycheck. Another family had the primary breadwinner lose his job due to an injury he recieved on the job; between unjustly being fired and medical bills (no insurance) they get to live in their car for a while. But they are only poor, because they have a car, and the other person has kept her job - for now. The family homeless for a month have been camping in a national forest in N.C. He got on a library computer to let us know he was still alive last week. But they are only poor, because they own a tent and he was able to hitchhike to town. The last family has only said they will be out of house and out of contact- their pride is not allowing them to say more. So I guess you may as well assume they are only poor as well.

Denying a serious problem just because you can cite a more serious problem fixes neither, especially if all you do is use one to justify ignoring the other.

Don't volunteer for the domestic violence shelter up here - get off your ass, take the drive down to Denver, volunteer there. Then you might grab a clue. But then again, I doubt it. IN fact, don't volunteer - people having to go to shelters don't need the judgemental attitude from people supposed to be helping them.

Local_Historian wrote: Don't volunteer for the domestic violence shelter up here - get off your ass, take the drive down to Denver, volunteer there. Then you might grab a clue. But then again, I doubt it. IN fact, don't volunteer - people having to go to shelters don't need the judgemental attitude from people supposed to be helping them.

Better yet... head to Detroit,or New Orleans, or the appalachian mountains...
spend a little time in the inner cities in the north east.
We don't see what we don't want to see. It is so much easier to think the poor in America are not really poor...they just have fewer creature comforts than we do but they get by.If we saw the reality of their lives it would be so much harder to say Cut welfare, cut food stamps, cut medicaid. Actually seeing people living day to day, hungry children people living in filthy rat infested tennements is disturbing. God forbid anyone should be disturbed out of their rightious comfort zone where the poor watch their big screen TV and eat McDonalds every day.

I'm guessing you haven't volunteered lately or you aren't volunteering with groups that help families. Most of these people don't have dental insurance so they don't see a dentist at all. Very few of the kids have even seen a dentist. No car, in fact a bus pass is a valuable and sought after component in the help they seek. I've bought many. I guess by your qualifications I am poor BB. The only qualification for "poor" you gave that I missed on was that I do have a computer in my home. I suppose the problem with living in such a privileged community is that we are utterly insulated from the want experienced in less favored locations. Really, you people need to get out more. Do your churches sponsor no mission projects locally?

Actually poverty in America is defined at a much higher level of income than some of the horror stories quoted above.

So maybe less aid needs to be given to the ones with smart phones, air conditioning, working cars, and more given to the ones who truly need the subsidized housing, etc.

"cell phones" is a biggie for you for some reason?... I guess someone who goes to Wal-Mart and buys a Tracphone and 100 minutes for less than $25 so that they put a contact phone number down for potential employers to call them for a job-interview is some sort of sign of "wealth" to you? And a "working car" to get to a job interview or place of work is also a "luxury"? (God help them if they live in Conifer/Bailey/Evergreen, got laid-off a year ago, and find a job in Denver...) Right? Oh, I forgot, they're supposed to walk away from their house, borrow a car and find someplace near a bus-stop? Would that make you happier?

Yep... You really DON'T have a clue. No wonder I have nothing but contempt for the clueless.