Let Him Die?

With single payer/universal healthcare, this wouldn't be a question we even had to ask.

archer wrote: With single payer/universal healthcare, this wouldn't be a question we even had to ask.

Then the question becomes; How do you pay for limitless healthcare for everyone?

We already pay for limitless healthcare through the emergency system.

No, we pay for emergency treatment. I don't believe that includes expensive long term treatments like dialysis, chemotherapy, transplants, skilled nursing care and the like. Once these are offered to everyone how do we begin to pay for it?

The states are paying for a lot of it through their medicaid programs...there was a huge outcry from AZ citizens when the state stopped covering transplants and several people died because they couldn't pay for it themselves. This was an indication that even in a very conservative state people are uncomfortable with the idea that the lives of people who cannot afford health insurance are somehow less valuable. These were not homeless or unemployed...they were hard working Americans who just couldn't make enough to afford insurance and then medicaid (which in AZ is actually a state program...) failed them and they died.

chickaree wrote: No, we pay for emergency treatment. I don't believe that includes expensive long term treatments like dialysis, chemotherapy, transplants, skilled nursing care and the like. Once these are offered to everyone how do we begin to pay for it?

Cut the defense budget and spend it on Americans here at home. Here's just one example of a place to cut: Do we REALLY need 13 military bases in Germany?

WayneLeeH wrote:

chickaree wrote: No, we pay for emergency treatment. I don't believe that includes expensive long term treatments like dialysis, chemotherapy, transplants, skilled nursing care and the like. Once these are offered to everyone how do we begin to pay for it?

Cut the defense budget and spend it on Americans here at home. Here's just one example of a place to cut: Do we REALLY need 13 military bases in Germany?

The problem with fiscal conservancy is that there is little room for compassion without compromise, and once a compromise is struck, then the slippery slope begins. Why do taxes today support animal shelters? Could you really pick the life of an animal over the life of your neighbor? Why not cut out all waste entirely, heck... including foreign aid, and just take care of our own! If the lives of Americans are the most important thing, we have a lot further we can cut.

This is actually why I like the idea of individualized taxation based upon belief systems. (read: donations). The thing is, we can't trust the good in people to actually fund necessities like roads, or to pay what others would consider their "fair share". I would actually enjoy watching what would happen if taxes became optional, even just for one year, have people decide what they wanted, and did not want, to pay for. I think it would be an interesting experiment.

Of course, that would require the goverment to actually tell us exactly where each dollar goes from each type of tax we pay, and they'll never do that.

RenegadeCJ wrote: So the question is. How much should society spent to keep one person alive? $1 million? $10 million? Is it unlimited?

I read about a lot of older people who do everything they can (transferring assets, etc) to make sure their own assets aren't eaten up if they end up in long term care, or long term disease.....if their own assets aren't worth spending to extend their life, should society's assets be used?

Deep questions....

You make an excellent point, Renegade. I think what our society has come to expect is to stay alive and well forever, no matter how much it costs [someone else]. I think if we didn't have insurance - health, auto, home, life - maybe we would all be a lot more careful about what we do; we'd take our daily health and long-term physical care seriously; we'd cherish life much more because it could end at any time with a lot more pain and suffering than we experience now. Insurance has made us lazy, timid and careless as a culture.

archer wrote: The states are paying for a lot of it through their medicaid programs...there was a huge outcry from AZ citizens when the state stopped covering transplants and several people died because they couldn't pay for it themselves. This was an indication that even in a very conservative state people are uncomfortable with the idea that the lives of people who cannot afford health insurance are somehow less valuable. These were not homeless or unemployed...they were hard working Americans who just couldn't make enough to afford insurance and then medicaid (which in AZ is actually a state program...) failed them and they died.

It's not that they don't make enough to afford new organs. It's that they came to expect organ transplant as unquestionably doable. Think about it: we're cutting organs out of dead people and using them to keep dying people alive. Isn't that about as macabre as it gets? Whatever happened to facing death with dignity and honor, like so many millions have for centuries in cultures around the world - until 20th century medicine erased that need? Are we really better off as a society for what we're doing here?

Not sure how many of you have spent any time inside a nursing or convalescent or assisted living home for the elderly. I don't see any living going on... it's about having been parked while waiting to die. Personally, I believe it's better to die younger, at home, among family...

Not sure how many of you have spent any time inside a nursing or convalescent or assisted living home for the elderly. I don't see any living going on... it's about having been parked while waiting to die. Personally, I believe it's better to die younger, at home, among family...

To an extent, I agree with you but I've seen organ transplants give people a new lease on life too. If there's a way to do that, I see no reason to die young, quietly. Used to be that all kind of diseases meant you could expect to die. That's no longer the case. Perhaps we should stop trying to save people that we know can be saved and encourage them to "die with dignity"? That might be an easy thing to say when it's theoretical but what if it's someone you love? What if it's your child who needs a transplant and you can't afford one?