Senate Moves To Allow Military To Arrest Americans

If this bill had been proposed while Bush was still in office I suspect the reaction of at least some of you would have been different. In fact, I think that at least some of you would be decrying anyone who didn't think this was such a hot idea as being "on the side of the terrorists" and claiming that no one who didn't have "something to hide" should be worried about it at all. Not to mention being all over the fact that that "Commie" ACLU was against it.

AspenValley wrote: If this bill had been proposed while Bush was still in office I suspect the reaction of at least some of you would have been different. In fact, I think that at least some of you would be decrying anyone who didn't think this was such a hot idea as being "on the side of the terrorists" and claiming that no one who didn't have "something to hide" should be worried about it at all. Not to mention being all over the fact that that "Commie" ACLU was against it.

Come on AV. THis has little to do with Bush or any one particular political party. What I understand is that a D and R drafted the friggin thing, so let's not play that card. The real issue are two fold in my mind. The first being the perceived need for such a law.. ie. paranoia. Are we becoming a police state? The second is more generalized and I wish to use it to make a point. I've been told countless times that it's the law as justification to follow along blindly. The corollary has also been that we have a say in those laws. This is a fine example of how a few individuals conceive of laws base don their own perceptions or fears, rather than those of the people.

And back on topic. The slant given this is clearly aimed to inflame. i do not see Americans being threatened in general, but I can perceive a gross abuse. We live in a society where accusations are the truth and you need to prove your innocence rather than the other way around. That sucks.
Thoughts and comments?

I'm not "playing a card", I'm simply finding it interesting that some of the same people who accused others of being practically unAmerican for having concerns with where legislation like the Patriot Act was going (guess what? Right here!) are suddenly concerned with the very same issues now that there is a President with a different letter after his name in office.

These are things on which we should have found COMMON GROUND 10 years ago on, and instead, it was allowed to become a partisan wedge issue, with the result that all of us have given up important freedoms.

If you're not worried about giving up freedoms so long as you perceive it is being done by "your side", you don't deserve to have them. That's my point.

Sounds to me like a few senators trying to look tough on terrorists without considering the potential abuses and consequences of their bill. I am dead set against such a bill just as I was against the Patriot Act.

The Patriot Act was the most unAmerican and unConstitutional law to be passed. This new proposed legislation is subject to much abuse as stated by Rockdoc. Opposition to it and the Patriot Act crosses political affiliation boundries.

Too many are still suffering from PTSD. The laws we have passed against terrorists do more damage than the terrorists themselves as they undermine our very Constitution.

Arlen wrote: The Patriot Act was the most unAmerican and unConstitutional law to be passed. This new proposed legislation is subject to much abuse as stated by Rockdoc. Opposition to it and the Patriot Act crosses political affiliation boundries.

And let's see how much crossing "political affiliation boundaries" results in bipartisan support. It already has a bipartisan set of sponsors.

Is anyone else frustrated that the only bipartisan bills seem to be to reduce our rights?

AspenValley wrote: I'm not "playing a card", I'm simply finding it interesting that some of the same people who accused others of being practically unAmerican for having concerns with where legislation like the Patriot Act was going (guess what? Right here!) are suddenly concerned with the very same issues now that there is a President with a different letter after his name in office.

These are things on which we should have found COMMON GROUND 10 years ago on, and instead, it was allowed to become a partisan wedge issue, with the result that all of us have given up important freedoms.

If you're not worried about giving up freedoms so long as you perceive it is being done by "your side", you don't deserve to have them. That's my point.

I suppose, I'm really sensitive to any postings that lead to the left right, D-R confrontation. That is how I read your post. The fact that there are people here who's glasses only allow them to see in a narrow partisan perspective simply is just another side of life. It's not where we need to be.

What we should and should not have done in the past is history. No one apparently had as good and confident a vision as we all do in looking back.

Common ground is where Americans need to go and I do believe they will... eventually. My primary fear is that the eventually will be forced on us by the wretched state of affairs we currently experience and even more dire conditions we're hurtling towards. This is why we both are preparing for that event possibility.

As I've already stated this proposed law holds all kinds of dire ramifications. For one, every American citizen becomes a labeled terrorist if they do not like the central government and aim to change it. I can already see the situation we have seen in many other countries where the military is forced to make a choice between honoring their oath to defend the country vs not arresting revolting family and friends.

chickaree wrote: Too many are still suffering from PTSD. The laws we have passed against terrorists do more damage than the terrorists themselves as they undermine our very Constitution.

No more accurate words have been spoken. Unfortunately we do not get to vote on these laws that are being passed. They simply get crammed down our collective throats and all of us pay the price with curtailed freedom.