Keystone fact check from think progress

19 Jan 2012 08:19 #41 by znovkovic

CritiKalbILL wrote: Welcome to 285bound and freedom of speech plaidvillian! Hope you brought some body armor! :woo hoo:


http://www.joustingschool.com/equipment.html :scared:

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19 Jan 2012 09:37 #42 by lionshead2010

Science Chic wrote: www.desmogblog.com/cornell-report-busts-...tone-xl-job-creation
Cornell Report Busts Myth of Keystone XL Job Creation
Ben Jervey
29 September 11

Proponents of the controversial Keystone XL pipeline project would like you to believe that, if approved, its construction will put hundreds of thousands of Americans to work. This is plainly untrue, according to a new report by the Cornell University Global Labor Institute.

The project will create no more than 2,500-4,650 temporary direct construction jobs for two years, according to TransCanada’s own data supplied to the State Department.

Based on TransCanada’s own figures provided to the Canadian government, operating costs for the U.S. section of their pipeline are minimal, and new permanent American jobs created would likely be as few as 50.


http://www.desmogblog.com/without-facts ... rt-twitter
Without Facts on Their Side, Oil Shills Try to Buy Keystone Support on Twitter
Ben Jervey
18 January 12

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Republican Congressional Committee want to make sure that no matter what your opinion of the decision, and no matter who you follow, that you won't be able to avoid their political spin. Both groups are paying for "Promoted Tweets" on various Twitter streams relating to the Keystone XL decision.

The truth remains that Keystone XL, if built, would be an export pipeline that would do nothing to increase American energy security, would actually increase the cost of oil in the Midwest , and which would create no more than, according to TransCanada itself , 6,000 temporary jobs on any given day. And that's questionable, since in the long run, this pipeline could kill more jobs than it creates [PDF of Cornell study] .


I will have to do some of this research on the weekend when my "pesky" job permits me some free time to do such research. In the meantime, I'm having a hard time believing that a project of such magnitude won't create a lot of jobs. And I'm not just talking about jobs directly associated with the contruction or operation of the pipeline. I'm talking about companies that sell trucks and equipment to the contruction companies, companies that repair that equipment or produce parts, companies that produce the materials used on the pipeline, mom and pop motels and diners that will accommodate the contruction workers, etc, etc. I have a hard time believing this will put ANYONE out of work.

In the same breath and thought...I wonder why we (the press) don't apply the same scrutiny to allegations of job creation by the Obama Administration. I heard on the radio either yesterday or the day before how the Administration had "created over a million green jobs". What? How so?

The whole scam thing cracks me up. The only scam I see is the scam the Administration is pulling on not pushing this pipeline through. I will do my research when time permits..but my gut tells me that's the only scam going on here.

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19 Jan 2012 09:44 #43 by Reverend Revelant

lionshead2010 wrote:
[snip]

I will have to do some of this research on the weekend when my "pesky" job permits me some free time to do such research. In the meantime, I'm having a hard time believing that a project of such magnitude won't create a lot of jobs. And I'm not just talking about jobs directly associated with the contruction or operation of the pipeline. I'm talking about companies that sell trucks and equipment to the contruction companies, companies that repair that equipment or produce parts, companies that produce the materials used on the pipeline, mom and pop motels and diners that will accommodate the contruction workers, etc, etc. I have a hard time believing this will put ANYONE out of work.

In the same breath and thought...I wonder why we (the press) don't apply the same scrutiny to allegations of job creation by the Obama Administration. I heard on the radio either yesterday or the day before how the Administration had "created over a million green jobs". What? How so?

The whole scam thing cracks me up. The only scam I see is the scam the Administration is pulling on not pushing this pipeline through. I will do my research when time permits..but my gut tells me that's the only scam going on here.


If you look over my comment on the last page, you will see that the unions and various trade groups associated with this know better. It will create jobs, the unions and trade groups know it and they are NOT in agreement with the Obama administration.

The progressives have got the administration by the balls and they don't care what's good for the country... just what good for their socialist ideology.

Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD

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19 Jan 2012 11:05 #44 by Reverend Revelant
So... Keystone can support the job figures that have been bandied about... but a 1.7 trolley extension in San Francisco will create 43,000 jobs over the length of the project...

... to celebrate the beginning of construction on the Central Subway, which is Phase 2 of the Third Street Light Rail Project. When service begins in 2018, this 1.7-mile extension of the existing T Third rail line will connect communities from Visitacion Valley to Chinatown with modern, convenient light rail service.

The project will serve as an engine for economic growth and recovery in San Francisco, creating thousands of job opportunities. Recent estimates indicate that the Central Subway will support between 37,000 and 43,000 jobs over the life of the project.

http://www.mtc.ca.gov/projects/central_subway/


Now... who is stretching the truth?

Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD

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19 Jan 2012 11:43 #45 by ScienceChic

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote: If you look over my comment on the last page, you will see that the unions and various trade groups associated with this know better. It will create jobs, the unions and trade groups know it and they are NOT in agreement with the Obama administration.

The progressives have got the administration by the balls and they don't care what's good for the country... just what good for their socialist ideology.

You mean the unions and trade groups who have a vested interest in this being approved, and are usually called manipulative and destructive by conservatives? :wink:

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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19 Jan 2012 11:45 - 19 Jan 2012 15:33 #46 by lionshead2010

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote: So... Keystone can support the job figures that have been bandied about... but a 1.7 trolley extension in San Francisco will create 43,000 jobs over the length of the project...

... to celebrate the beginning of construction on the Central Subway, which is Phase 2 of the Third Street Light Rail Project. When service begins in 2018, this 1.7-mile extension of the existing T Third rail line will connect communities from Visitacion Valley to Chinatown with modern, convenient light rail service.

The project will serve as an engine for economic growth and recovery in San Francisco, creating thousands of job opportunities. Recent estimates indicate that the Central Subway will support between 37,000 and 43,000 jobs over the life of the project.

http://www.mtc.ca.gov/projects/central_subway/


Now... who is stretching the truth?


I can't prove it right now but in my "gut" I sense a double standard.

There seems to be one very detailed regimen of scrutiny applied to ANY jobs related data generated by conservative-leaning big business in general, conservative organizations and/or conservative candidates that is well documented on the front page of most newspapers and in various forms of media such as the nightly news (rightfully so I might add). There seems to be an entirely different standard of scrutiny applied to ANY jobs related data generated by the Obama Admininstration. I really don't have a problem with liberal organizations scrutinizing conservative figures...they should. I just wish that conservative organizations would apply the same scrutiny to numbers I see thrown around by the Administration and media AND that scrutiny would recieve the same front page coverage and not be glossed over or buried on page 28 of the Denver Post, New York Times or Los Angeles Times.

I just don't see the same level of scrutiny. What I do see is an all out attack on all things conservative while the Administration gets a relatively free ride. We should check all facts with the same scrutiny but I don't see it happening. I sense a bias that will shape the outcome of the upcoming election. I am very bothered by this but simply don't have the next 3 days to cite 45 obscure sources proving my gut feeling. So this will remain in the realm of a humble opinions developed by a person who has been watching the game of life for over a half a century. I have learned to listen to my "gut".

The Obama Administration is getting a relatively free ride on it's jobs data and it will shape theo outcome of the election. If the conservative establishment allows this to continue...then we should lose the next election as well. I'm flabbergasted by what I see going on. Utterly amazed that so little is said about it. :faint:

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19 Jan 2012 13:22 #47 by BearMtnHIB

Benefits of Keystone XL Are Certain

TransCanada believes Keystone XL will ultimately be approved, as it is too important to the U.S. economy and its national interest. As well, Keystone XL remains the best option for producers to supply crude oil to U.S. Gulf Coast Refineries.
The U.S. consumes 15 million barrels of oil each day and imports 10 to 11 million barrels per day. Industry forecasts predict oil consumption will continue at these levels for the next two to three decades, so a secure supply of crude oil is critical to U.S. energy security.
Keystone XL is shovel-ready. TransCanada is poised to put 13,000 Americans to work to construct the pipeline - pipefitters, welders, mechanics, electricians, heavy equipment operators, among other jobs - in addition to 7,000 manufacturing jobs that would be created across the U.S. Additionally, local businesses along the pipeline route will benefit from the 118,000 spin-off jobs Keystone XL will create through increased business for local goods and service providers.
TransCanada looks forward to concluding the U.S. regulatory review process and beginning the important work of building Keystone XL. The safe and reliable operation of our pipelines and infrastructure has been TransCanada's priority for 60 years. This same commitment will drive us forward in the years ahead.


Source; http://www.transcanada.com/keystone.html

I think most of us know the smoke being blown up our butts when the left says this will not create jobs. As I have said earlier in this thread- The Alaska pipeline alone created jobs for tens of thousands of workers over many years of construction, and that one project was responsible for a jobs boom in the 70's in Alaska that is legendary. Many jobs still exist today manning and maintaining the pipeline's many booster stations and the project still provides good employment for crews of pipefitters, welders, mechanics, electricians, heavy equipment operators. and inspectors.

The claim that this will not provide jobs is pure bullcrap- and those who expouse this view know how full of it they are! Anyone who can reason knows this project is a money maker- and a jobs provider.

As for the claim that this oil would be exported out of the country- this is also a lie that is being perpetrated by the left- and this lie originates from the very groups that are opposed to the pipeline.

Here is the truth.....

Terry Cunha, a spokesman for TransCanada in Calgary, Alberta, said it’s his understanding that most of the oil will be for domestic use in the United States.

“As we’ve highlighted, why not get (this oil) from Canada, versus importing it from other countries that don’t share the same beliefs as we do in Canada and North America?” he said.

A spokesman for the largest U.S. petroleum refiner, Valero Energy Corp. of San Antonio, Texas, said that while some of the Canadian oil may be refined into products for export, it would be a small part of its overall use.


Source: http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/article_f2e54343-51ba-57e7-89bd-a2656901ba62.html#ixzz1jwAN6w8S

So you see- the truth is much different than the smoke and mirrors we have been getting from the opposition to this project. Will they ever stop lying even once about these very important issues?

Oil pipelines are the safest- most environmentally friendly- and cost effective way to transport oil, gas and water. Their record of safety is unmatched by any other transport method- by ship- by truck- by train- pipelines cause far less damage per million barrels transported than any other method of transportation period.

Here's a good article from the washington post a few hours old- the washington post is not known for it's "conservative" viewpoints!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/rejecting-the-keystone-pipeline-is-an-act-of-insanity/2012/01/19/gIQAowG6AQ_story.html

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19 Jan 2012 14:08 #48 by Reverend Revelant

Science Chic wrote:

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote: If you look over my comment on the last page, you will see that the unions and various trade groups associated with this know better. It will create jobs, the unions and trade groups know it and they are NOT in agreement with the Obama administration.

The progressives have got the administration by the balls and they don't care what's good for the country... just what good for their socialist ideology.

You mean the unions and trade groups who have a vested interest in this being approved, and are usually called manipulative and destructive by conservatives? :wink:


Right... now you tell me who's right? The Environazi's or the socialist labor unions?

Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD

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19 Jan 2012 21:55 #49 by Soulshiner
These job numbers are all over the place. Watch this piece where an independent study cited at the end puts it at 2-3,000 temp jobs and a TransCanada spokesperson puts it more in the hundreds, not thousands.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201201190008

When you plant ice you're going to harvest wind. - Robert Hunter

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