America's Turn From Science, A Danger for Democracy

Maybe I'm getting more cynical in my older age, but I think this guy is sugarcoating everything in the article too much, and way too optimistic about the future. He doesn't "blame anybody", nor does he offer any real solutions.

http://www.truth-out.org/americas-turn- ... 1324997534
America's Turn From Science, A Danger for Democracy
Monday 26 December 2011
by: Tom Hussain

Americans have trouble dealing with science, and one place that's especially obvious is in presidential campaigns, says Shawn Lawrence Otto, who tried, with limited success, to get the candidates to debate scientific questions in the 2008 presidential election.

Otto is the author of a new book, "Fool Me Twice: Fighting the Assault on Science in America," which opens with a quote from Thomas Jefferson: "Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government." And if the people and their leaders aren't well informed and don't use scientific information to solve modern problems, Otto suggests, the United States could soon skid into decline.

"Without the mooring provided by the well-informed opinion of the people, governments may become paralyzed or, worse, corrupted by powerful interests seeking to oppress and enslave," he writes.

Because politics needs to be taken out of science, not the other way around. Policy should be set based on scientific recommendations, not political decisions based on corporate influence or regional cronyism. Politicians need to put aside personal agendas, and biases, and accept what the majority of scientific recommendations are.

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote:

Science Chic wrote: Because politics needs to be taken out of science, not the other way around. Policy should be set based on scientific recommendations, not political decisions based on corporate influence or regional cronyism. Politicians need to put aside personal agendas, and biases, and accept what the majority of scientific recommendations are.

That's my point... why should politicians "accept the majority of scientific recommendations"? Are you trying to tell me that a scientist should get carte blanche just because they make a pronouncement? Of course... I don't think you are saying that. But... that money you are looking at... that's taxpayer's money, not yours, not the scientist. And it's not an unlimited pot of gold. And if the scientific recommendation has enough merit, then why doesn't private industry finance the science?

No, not a scientist, but a recommendation made by a scientific panel or advisory board, or the National Academies, yes. And no, I've never once said that scientists should get "carte blanche" of their findings or that recommendations be accepted at face value with no questioning, as there are always other considerations such as cost, impact on the economy, feasibility of implementation, etc. What I have a problem with is when their recommendations are changed, deleted, or forcibly kept quiet to serve a political agenda.

The fact that taxpayer money funds the science is a good thing - it's research results that indirectly belong to us, and should benefit society as a whole; if it were industry funded more than it already is, then we'd start getting a lot more biased research results that help the companies at our expense (as it's been shown time and again that when researchers have a vested interest, even if only a small portion of their funding, then their results are more often skewed to favor an industry's product because yes, industry does fund university research as well, just at a lower percentage than the gov't).

No, research funding shouldn't be unlimited as that does not benefit us: we need to be funding only the best and biggest potential ROI projects (and a small percentage of high-risk, high-reward potentials as well); it should be very competitive and it is (when I left science, the award rate for grants from our agency, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, had dropped from 25% to less than 10% - that was too drastic a decrease IMO, as whole labs/research projects were shutting down when funding that was previously available dried up, and these were still good, top-notch research teams and projects whose research is now lost to the public as a whole) - there has to be a fine line that is flexible yet maintains standards for excellence.

I don't know. I don't like the idea that just because someone makes a recommendation, that everyone needs to bow to that recommendation. But at the same time, most politicians are not smart enough to evaluate the scientific validity of a recommendation.

I'm not saying that a recommendation should carry that much weight from one person, or that policy should be based on a study; we're talking a consensus based on multiple studies. When multiple lines of evidence point to a specific problem that can be addressed by a specific solution that is agreed upon by a group of experts and backed by data, then it should be strongly considered, not dismissed as "being insufficiently studied", or that the multitude of scientists who collectively contributed to that mass of data have an agenda and are merely trying to keep their funding or their status and prestige. That argument carries weight for an isolated field of study, or a small group of researchers, but not for a field that has thousands of publications collected over decades, and thousands of scientists who have participated in that effort - there is no way to coordinate a manipulative and false agenda for that long, with that much independent verification, and with that many people.

Maybe we need a board of scientist, that are funded a certain amount of money each year, and they take the recommendations and decide which are valid recommendation and they dole out the money. And they review the progress of the projects and they decide if a project will continue.

Um, yeah...are you talking about a board that advises the government on policy, as I was, or are you talking about a group that reviews proposals for research projects and decides who's making worthy-enough progress to continue funding or who has a good enough new idea to receive starter funding? Because both already exist, the institutions are funded by grants from the federal government, and are typically filled by rotating volunteers who don't get paid for their time and effort. The former are selected for being the cream of the crop in their respective fields, the latter work through the NIH to review grant proposals and decide who makes the cut and who doesn't.

The groups that advise the gov't on policy:
The National Academies,Who We Are: http://www.nationalacademies.org/about/whoweare.html

The National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, Institute of Medicine, and National Research Council are private, nonprofit institutions that provide expert advice on some of the most pressing challenges facing the nation and the world.

Known collectively as the National Academies, our organization produces groundbreaking reports that have helped shape sound policies, inform public opinion, and advance the pursuit of science, engineering, and medicine.

and What We Do
http://www.nationalacademies.org/about/whatwedo.html

The National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, Institute of Medicine, and National Research Council are the nation's pre-eminent source of high-quality, objective advice on science, engineering, and health matters. Most of our work is conducted by the National Research Council and the Institute of Medicine. The Research Council, the operating arm of the NAS and NAE, performs its studies and workshops through five major divisions; Behavioral and Social Sciences and Education, Earth and Life Studies, Engineering and Physical Sciences, Policy and Global Affairs, and the Transportation Research Board.

Our peer-reviewed consensus reports bring together the world's foremost scientists, engineers, and health professionals to address some of society's toughest challenges. Each year, more than 6,000 of these experts volunteer to serve on hundreds of study committees that are convened to answer specific sets of questions.

A quick search yielded this list, edited down to only include the gov't agencies that are likely to have science advisory committees (you can see the rest at the link). Not all of these below will pertain to science, like the Federal Facilities Environmental Restoration Dialogue Committee, but you get the gist - there are a lot of science advisory boards for the gov't and I'm sure I didn't even find them all.
Federal Advisory Committee by Agency
EPA Local Government Advisory Committee
EPA Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act Scientific Advisory Panel
EPA Clean Air Act Advisory Committee
EPA Council on Clean Air Compliance Analysis
EPA National Environmental Education Advisory Council
EPA National Drinking Water Advisory Council
EPA Risk Assessment and Management Commission
EPA Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee
EPA Environmental Financial Advisory Board
EPA Federal Facilities Environmental Restoration Dialogue Committee
EPA Gulf of Mexico Program Policy Review Board
EPA National Advisory Council for Environmental Policy and Technology
EPA Science Advisory Board http://yosemite.epa.gov/sab/sabpeople.n ... tees/BOARD
EPA National Environmental Justice Advisory Council
EPA Small Nonroad Engine Negotiated Rulemaking Advisory Committee
EPA Small Town Environmental Planning Task Force
EPA Advisory Committee on Personal Motor Vehicle Greenhouse Gas Reductions
EPA Governmental Cmte to the U.S. Govt Representative to the North American Commission on Environmental Cooperation
EPA Natl AC to the U. S. Government Representative to the North American Commission on Environmental Cooperation
EPA Common Sense Initiative Council
EPA Good Neighbor Environmental Board
EPA Urban Wet Weather Flows
EPA Environmental Laboratory Advisory Board
EPA Pesticide Program Dialogue Committee
EPA Industrial Non-Hazardous Waste Policy Dialogue Committee
EPA National Advisory Committee for Acute Exposure Guideline Levels for Hazardous Substances
HHS Oncologic Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Advisory Commission on Childhood Vaccines
HHS Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect
HHS Science Board to the Food and Drug Administration
HHS National Cancer Institute Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Cancer Institute
HHS Cancer Research Manpower and Education Review Committee
HHS National Advisory Board for Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
HHS Dermatologic and Ophthalmic Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Anti-Infective Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS National Kidney and Urologic Diseases Advisory Board
HHS National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke Special Emphasis Panel
HHS National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke Initial Review Group
HHS National Toxicology Program Board of Scientific Counselors
HHS Biological Response Modifiers Advisory Committee
HHS National Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases Advisory Council
HHS National Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases Advisory Council
HHS National Digestive Diseases Advisory Board
HHS National Diabetes Advisory Board
HHS National Advisory Board on Medical Rehabilitation Research
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Center for Biotechnology Information National Library of Medicine
HHS Food Advisory Committee
HHS National Advisory Environmental Health Sciences Council
HHS Board of Regents of the National Library of Medicine
HHS Hospital Infection Control Practices Advisory Committee
HHS Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration National Advisory Council
HHS Center for Mental Health Services National Advisory Council
HHS Center for Substance Abuse Prevention National Advisory Council
HHS Center for Substance Abuse Treatment National Advisory Council
HHS Advisory Committee for Women's Services
HHS Deafness and Other Communication Disorders Programs Advisory Committee
HHS Technical Electronic Product Radiation Safety Standards Committee
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health
HHS Advisory Panel on Alzheimer's Disease
HHS National Institute on Aging Initial Review Group
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry
HHS Arthritis Advisory Committee
HHS Blood Products Advisory Committee
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, Clinical Center
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Eye Institute
HHS National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
HHS AIDS Research Advisory Committee, NIAID
HHS Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome Research Review Committee
HHS Acrylonitrile Study Advisory Panel
HHS Advisory Committee for Energy-Related Epidemiologic Research
HHS Advisory Committee on Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention
HHS Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices
HHS Advisory Committee on Infant Mortality
HHS A C on Special Studies Relating to the Possible Long-Term Health Effects of Phonoxy Herbicides and Contaminants
HHS Advisory Committee to the Director, Centers for Disease Control
HHS Advisory Committee to the Director, National Institutes of Health
HHS Advisory Council for the Elimination of Tuberculosis
HHS Advisory Council on Hazardous Substances Research and Training
HHS National Advisory Council on Nurse Education and Practice
HHS Advisory Panel for the Evaluation of the Job Opportunities and Basic Skills (JOBS) Training Program
HHS National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholisn Initial Review Group
HHS National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Allergenic Products Advisory Committee
HHS Allergy, Immunology, and Transplantation Research Committee
HHS Biomedical Library Review Committee
HHS Anesthetic and Life Support Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Antiviral Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases Special Grants Review Committee
HHS Behavioral and Neurosciences Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Heart Lung and Blood Institute
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Dental Research
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Mental Health
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute on Aging
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute on Drug Abuse
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Library of Medicine
HHS Board of Scientific Counselors, National Center for Infectious Diseases
HHS National Cancer Institute Initial Review Group
HHS Cardiovascular and Renal Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS National Institute of General Medical Sciences Initial Review Group
HHS Centers for Disease Control Advisory Committee on HIV and STD Prevention
HHS Clinical Laboratory Improvement Advisory Committee
HHS Clinical Trials Review Committee
HHS Communication Disorders Review Committee
HHS Council on Graduate Medical Education
HHS Device Good Manufacturing Practice Advisory Committee
HHS Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases Special Grants Review Committee
HHS Division of Research Grants Advisory Committee
HHS Drug Abuse Advisory Committee
HHS National Institute on Drug Abuse Initial Review Group
HHS National Institute on Drug Abuse Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Drug Testing Advisory Board
HHS End-Stage Renal Disease Data Advisory Committee, HCFA, NIDDK
HHS Endocrinologic and Metabolic Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Environmental Health Sciences Review Committee
HHS Federal Council on the Aging
HHS Federal Hospital Council
HHS Advisory Committee for Reproductive Health Drugs
HHS Fogarty International Center Advisory Board
HHS Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center Advisory Committee
HHS Gastrointestinal Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS National Center for Research Resources Initial Review Group
HHS Advisory Committee for Pharmaceutical Science
HHS Genetic Basis of Disease Review Committee
HHS Human Genome Research Initial Review Group
HHS Health Professions and Nurse Education Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Hanford Thyroid Morbidity Study Advisory Committee
HHS Health Care Technology Study Section
HHS HRSA AIDS Advisory Committee
HHS Health Services Research Dissemination Study Section
HHS Health Services Research and Developmental Grants Review Committee
HHS Heart, Lung, and Blood Program Project Review Committee
HHS Heart, Lung, and Blood Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Special Emphasis Panel I
HHS Injury Research Grant Review Committee
HHS Interagency Committee on Smoking and Health
HHS Literature Selection Technical Review Committee
HHS National Institute of Child Health and Human Development Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Maternal and Child Health Research Grants Review Committee
HHS Medical Devices Advisory Committee
HHS Medical Imaging Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS National Institute of Child Health and Human Development Initial Review Group
HHS Microbiology and Infectious Diseases Research Committee
HHS Mine Health Research Advisory Committee
HHS Minority Programs Review Committee
HHS National Advisory Allergy and Infectious Diseases Council
HHS National Advisory Child Health and Human Development Council
HHS National Advisory Committee on Rural Health
HHS National Advisory Council for Health Care Policy, Research, and Evaluation
HHS National Advisory Council for Human Genome Research
HHS National Advisory Council for Nursing Research
HHS National Advisory Council on Aging
HHS National Advisory Council on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
HHS National Advisory Council on Drug Abuse
HHS National Advisory Council on Migrant Health
HHS National Advisory Council on the National Health Service Corps
HHS National Advisory Dental Research Council
HHS National Advisory Eye Council
HHS National Advisory General Medical Sciences Council
HHS National Advisory Mental Health Council
HHS National Advisory Neurological Disorders and Stroke Council
HHS National Advisory Research Resources Council
HHS National Cancer Advisory Board
HHS National Commission on Alcoholism and Other Alcohol-Related Problems
HHS National Committee on Vital and Health Statistics
HHS National Deafness and Other Communication Disorders Advisory Board
HHS National Deafness and Other Communication Disorders Advisory Council
HHS National Heart, Lung, and Blood Advisory Council
HHS National Institute of Dental Research Special Grants Review Committee
HHS National Vaccine Advisory Committee
HHS National Institute on Aging Special Emphasis Panel
HHS National Institute of Nursing Research Initial Review Group
HHS Nonprescription Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Peripheral and Central Nervous System Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Pharmacological Sciences Review Committee
HHS Practicing Physicians Advisory Council
HHS President's Cancer Panel
HHS President's Committee on Mental Retardation
HHS President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports
HHS Psychopharmacologic Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Pulmonary-Allergy Drugs Advisory Committee
HHS Recombinant DNA Advisory Committee
HHS National Center for Research Resources Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Research Training Review Committee
HHS Safety and Occupational Health Study Section
HHS Science Advisory Board to the National Center for Toxicological Research
HHS Sickle Cell Disease Advisory Committee
HHS Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Special Emphasis Panel II
HHS Task Force on Aging Research
HHS Technical Advisory Committee for Diabetes Translation and Community Control Programs
HHS Training Grant and Career Development Review Committee
HHS Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee
HHS Veterinary Medicine Advisory Committee
HHS National Eye Institute Special Emphasis Panel
HHS National Cancer Institute Board of Scientific Advisors
HHS National Mammography Quality Assurance Advisory Committee
HHS National Commission on Allied Health
HHS Health Care Policy and Research Special Emphasis Panel
HHS Commission on Research Integrity
HHS Sleep Disorders Research Advisory Board
HHS Workers' Family Protection Task Force
HHS National Task Force on Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) Drug Development
EPA’s New Science Advisory Board (SAB) Chemical Assessment Advisory Committee.
DOE Nuclear Science Advisory Committee (NSAC)
Office of Science and Technology Policy
United States Air Force Scientific Advisory Board
National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity

Or maybe the public doesn't need to be funding scientist at all.

Yes, it should because science benefits the public and it removes bias from interests that stand to make a profit from the results.

P.S. For full disclosure purposes... do you work in a publicly funded science venture?

You're kidding, right?! lol I've only been saying since I started posting on community forums over 2 years ago that I quit my job in science to stay home and raise my kids, so no, I don't work in a "publicly funded science venture" and haven't for 3.5 years now, nor do I have in my plans to go back to scientific research - my lab skills are too rusty, I'm not up on the latest research results or techniques in my field, and I can't go back to the hours that doing the quality of work that I expect from myself in a lab job requires - there is no such thing as working from home when running experiments with biohazardous, caustic, and/or controlled chemicals/materials - because it would take too much time away from my kids; they're only young once.