Drones

05 Jun 2012 16:20 #21 by Blazer Bob
Replied by Blazer Bob on topic Drones

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05 Jun 2012 16:23 #22 by Rick
Replied by Rick on topic Drones

archer wrote: Apparently they work.

(CNN) -- Abu Yahya al-Libi, the No. 2 man in al Qaeda and a longtime public face of the terror network, is dead, White House spokesman Jay Carney confirmed Tuesday.
Al-Libi's death was "another serious blow to core al Qaeda," said Carney, who was unable to provide further details.
"His death is part of the degradation taking place in core al Qaeda in the last several years," Carney said.
Earlier Tuesday, U.S. officials said that al-Libi was killed by a CIA drone strike in Pakistan launched Monday.

Al-Libi's death marks one of the most significant blows to al Qaeda since the U.S. military killed Osama bin Laden in a daring nighttime raid in Pakistan a year ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/world/asi ... index.html

I know there have been a lot of jokes about Obama's drones, but when you get results against those who would do us grave damage....it's hard to argue that they are not worthwhile.

First of all, these are NOT "Obama's drones", the attack drones were started under the Bush administration in 2001...after 9/11. They have been perfected over time and were used to find as well as kill the enemy throughout Bush's terms. The fact that our Nobel Peace Prize winner decided that it's more humane to kill rather than to capture is a different story which some on the left have objected to and some have chosen to ignore...it is Obama after all.

If we are going to fight a war on terrorists, I see nothing wrong with using them if the alternative is larger strikes with more colllateral damage. But if we say there is no war on terrorism, what are we doing with a kill list and a "guilty because the president says so" policy? We can now just say we're not waging war in your country, we'll just fly over and bomb whoever we want.

And Obama was suppose to be the president that the ME would like :lol:

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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05 Jun 2012 17:38 #23 by archer
Replied by archer on topic Drones
Bill...my reference to Obama's drones was to a thread awhile back where some posters blasted Obama for using drones...I believe there were even some cartoons about them. I can't search the site on my cell, but maybe you remember the thread too.

As for Bush...too bad he didn't use more drones and fewer troops.

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05 Jun 2012 18:04 #24 by bailey bud
Replied by bailey bud on topic Drones
Here's some facts in the event that anyone is interested.

History of Drone attacks:
http://www.newamerica.net/publications/ ... the_drones

Data/facts on drone attacks:

http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones


From the first link:

By July 2008, Bush administration officials had tired of Pakistan's unwillingness or inability to capture or kill the ever-expanding number of militants in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). So they decided to ramp up the CIA's drone program targeting al Qaeda and Taliban leaders in the tribal regions.

What had particularly alarmed Bush administration officials over the previous three years was the mounting evidence that al Qaeda and affiliated groups were using the FATA to train Westerners for attacks on American and European targets

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05 Jun 2012 18:49 #25 by pineinthegrass
Replied by pineinthegrass on topic Drones

LadyJazzer wrote: "Bomp, bomp, bomp... Another one bites the dust...."

Another one of those that weren't important enough for Bush to go after....


Just to let you know, this guy was captured under the Bush administration during the Afghanistan invasion (which you opposed). He escaped from prision in 2005. I'm sure it's Bush's fault.

That prison in Bagram Afghanistan had 600 inmates under Bush. Now it has 1700.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Yahya_al-Libi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagram_interim_detention_facility

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05 Jun 2012 19:54 #26 by FredHayek
Replied by FredHayek on topic Drones

LadyJazzer wrote:

FredHayek wrote: I agree. But is it any different than the House Democrats who approved "W"'s war on Iraq when the polls were for it, but went against it when the war became unpopular. Voting by opinion poll is flip-flopping like a largemouth bass.


Do you think, JUST ONCE, you could make a comment that doesn't involve a digression into some "They did it too" bullsh*t?

Is it any different?..YES, it's different. But that's irrelevant right now.

Yes. :wave:

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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07 Jun 2012 07:23 #27 by Blazer Bob
Replied by Blazer Bob on topic Drones

bailey bud wrote: Military technology is becoming dangerously game-like. Drones bug me --- primarily because they make a video game of killing real people. Truthfully, I don't know what differentiates drones from - say a stick-controlled F-16 (arguably a video game, as well) - or a fly-by-wire missile.

My objection has less to do with who's President - than how it's done. I suppose it got the job done, and it gets the job done without putting our troops in danger, and reduces collateral damage.

Even so, I simply don't like the idea of the job being like a game for someone, and I worry about the relative ease of operating our killing machines.

I'm also bothered by the culture that would sing "Another one bites the dust" - even at the death of an apparent terrorist. I didn't like it when John McCain sang "bomb bomb Iran" tune, either.


BB, I saw this piece and thought of your post.


http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/06 ... ilot-ptsd/

"The human operators who control America’s killer drones are susceptible to the same psychological stress that infantrymen sometimes experience after combat. But better drones and control systems could help reduce the controllers’ stress levels — by allowing the people to blame the robots for the awful human cost of remote air strikes.

But there’s a downside. Sometimes you don’t want drone operators avoiding feelings of guilt.

At least that’s what Stanford University researcher Ryan Calo has concluded. Calo, one of the country’s top experts on the legal and ethical aspects of robot technology, has written extensively on the subject — and closely tracks the work of other researchers in his field. “It really matters how you design the controls,” Calo tells Danger Room. “Design and interface design … can change incentives and can change the psychological impact.”

When a missile gets fired or a bomb dropped — something that’s happened hundreds of times in America’s fast-expanding robotic air war — someone or something is going to get blamed for any resulting deaths. The question is whether a human being absorbs all of that culpability, which can mean an enormous emotional burden."..........................

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20 Jun 2012 12:23 #28 by bailey bud
Replied by bailey bud on topic Drones

Blazer Bob wrote:



http://durangoherald.com/storyimage/DU/20120620/NEWS03/706199926/AR/0/AR-706199926.jpg&ExactW=620

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20 Jun 2012 14:09 #29 by JMC
Replied by JMC on topic Drones
You righties are such phony pieces of crap. If Romney wins and escalates the drone program you will be kissing his butt and praising him to high heaven.
I already know the lefties will be all over his butt.
Don't you morons see how stupid you look?

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20 Jun 2012 14:40 #30 by FredHayek
Replied by FredHayek on topic Drones

Blazer Bob wrote:

bailey bud wrote: Military technology is becoming dangerously game-like. Drones bug me --- primarily because they make a video game of killing real people. Truthfully, I don't know what differentiates drones from - say a stick-controlled F-16 (arguably a video game, as well) - or a fly-by-wire missile.

My objection has less to do with who's President - than how it's done. I suppose it got the job done, and it gets the job done without putting our troops in danger, and reduces collateral damage.

Even so, I simply don't like the idea of the job being like a game for someone, and I worry about the relative ease of operating our killing machines.

I'm also bothered by the culture that would sing "Another one bites the dust" - even at the death of an apparent terrorist. I didn't like it when John McCain sang "bomb bomb Iran" tune, either.


BB, I saw this piece and thought of your post.


http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/06 ... ilot-ptsd/

"The human operators who control America’s killer drones are susceptible to the same psychological stress that infantrymen sometimes experience after combat. But better drones and control systems could help reduce the controllers’ stress levels — by allowing the people to blame the robots for the awful human cost of remote air strikes.

But there’s a downside. Sometimes you don’t want drone operators avoiding feelings of guilt.

At least that’s what Stanford University researcher Ryan Calo has concluded. Calo, one of the country’s top experts on the legal and ethical aspects of robot technology, has written extensively on the subject — and closely tracks the work of other researchers in his field. “It really matters how you design the controls,” Calo tells Danger Room. “Design and interface design … can change incentives and can change the psychological impact.”

When a missile gets fired or a bomb dropped — something that’s happened hundreds of times in America’s fast-expanding robotic air war — someone or something is going to get blamed for any resulting deaths. The question is whether a human being absorbs all of that culpability, which can mean an enormous emotional burden."..........................


I was reading my American Rifleman last night and they had a story about the American sniper with the highest body count ever, over 100 kills confirmed and probably twice as many probables. (.338Lapua makes big holes.) The interview says the sniper had no regrets and was glad that he killed these insurgents before they killed Americans but you have to wonder if subconsciously all that death affects him.

Drones would have seemed a way to avoid those nightmares for our troops but it looks like they get to suffer too after being ordered to kill. And their victims aren't aiming weapons at our troops when they are targeted.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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