We gotta stop celebrating war

Documentary airing on HBO all day today-Highly recomended

[youtube:2swdyhen][/youtube:2swdyhen]

Watch the NFL games today, its all about the military, at every sporting event, all year long its all about the military and honoring the military. What are we doing?

I don't find anything honorable about it. We are damaging our society severely here- We should aviod sending our boys into hell, into a total breakdown of society because once you go to someplaces, you never come back. I know

Well this is as good a post as any for me to jump into this forum. The title interested me and i wasnt sure where it was going. I agree with the title but not with the content of your post. I don't know anybody that celebrates war but know a lot of people who celebrate the dirty job our military volnteers do.To not be greatful of the sacrifices these men and women make is completely foriegn to me.Maybe you have personal experiences that are much different than mine so I can't judge you based on what you are saying but I would hope that you know these men and women are just doing their jobs. If you think they should refuse to fight then you can't believe we should even have a military. In my opinion the only effective fighting force is one that follows orders no matter what. I think the people of this country need to speak up and demand change from our leaders and channel their anger at politicians and not at the military who just does what they are told.
My brotherserved in Iraq and now Afganistan and in my town he is one of many who is seen as a hero for choosing such a low paying job with very high importance. We aso have a Coast Guard base in my town and these people are some of the finest you will ever meet. You dont have to think of these people as heros because you are free and you are free because of people who paid the highest price and were never paid enough for that. I would just ask you and others to just ask yourself where we would be if we these heros never existed and if only a few were brave enough to fight for this country. Ask yourself how long we as a counrty would last if we lost the will to fight and hoped our enemies would just leave us alone. Our military can not pick and choose what battles they want to fight so we should always stand behind them. And when you meet a vet i hope you would just be greatful for their service even if you have to lie about agreeing with they war they have fought. The last thing these men and women need to hear is that the risks they took and the injuries they may have suffered were for a bad cause.

KodiakJack wrote: Well this is as good a post as any for me to jump into this forum. The title interested me and i wasnt sure where it was going. I agree with the title but not with the content of your post. I don't know anybody that celebrates war but know a lot of people who celebrate the dirty job our military volnteers do.To not be greatful of the sacrifices these men and women make is completely foriegn to me.Maybe you have personal experiences that are much different than mine so I can't judge you based on what you are saying but I would hope that you know these men and women are just doing their jobs. If you think they should refuse to fight then you can't believe we should even have a military. In my opinion the only effective fighting force is one that follows orders no matter what. I think the people of this country need to speak up and demand change from our leaders and channel their anger at politicians and not at the military who just does what they are told.
My brotherserved in Iraq and now Afganistan and in my town he is one of many who is seen as a hero for choosing such a low paying job with very high importance. We aso have a Coast Guard base in my town and these people are some of the finest you will ever meet. You dont have to think of these people as heros because you are free and you are free because of people who paid the highest price and were never paid enough for that. I would just ask you and others to just ask yourself where we would be if we these heros never existed and if only a few were brave enough to fight for this country. Ask yourself how long we as a counrty would last if we lost the will to fight and hoped our enemies would just leave us alone. Our military can not pick and choose what battles they want to fight so we should always stand behind them. And when you meet a vet i hope you would just be greatful for their service even if you have to lie about agreeing with they war they have fought. The last thing these men and women need to hear is that the risks they took and the injuries they may have suffered were for a bad cause.

Thanks KJ

Big Doug wrote: Watch the NFL games today, its all about the military, at every sporting event, all year long its all about the military and honoring the military. What are we doing?

I don't find anything honorable about it. We are damaging our society severely here- We should aviod sending our boys into hell, into a total breakdown of society because once you go to someplaces, you never come back. I know

So what is it that you know. You have never served, you have never been in a combat zone, you have no clue what we went through or how we feel. You do lie about it though. and your pretty lousy at that.

He's fucking idiot CPO. Don't reply.

And we are screwed up as a country where people who play a game get more pay that someone who puts their lives on the line for those that play.

KodiakJack wrote: Well this is as good a post as any for me to jump into this forum. The title interested me and i wasnt sure where it was going. I agree with the title but not with the content of your post. I don't know anybody that celebrates war but know a lot of people who celebrate the dirty job our military volnteers do.To not be greatful of the sacrifices these men and women make is completely foriegn to me.Maybe you have personal experiences that are much different than mine so I can't judge you based on what you are saying but I would hope that you know these men and women are just doing their jobs. If you think they should refuse to fight then you can't believe we should even have a military. In my opinion the only effective fighting force is one that follows orders no matter what. I think the people of this country need to speak up and demand change from our leaders and channel their anger at politicians and not at the military who just does what they are told.
My brotherserved in Iraq and now Afganistan and in my town he is one of many who is seen as a hero for choosing such a low paying job with very high importance. We aso have a Coast Guard base in my town and these people are some of the finest you will ever meet. You dont have to think of these people as heros because you are free and you are free because of people who paid the highest price and were never paid enough for that. I would just ask you and others to just ask yourself where we would be if we these heros never existed and if only a few were brave enough to fight for this country. Ask yourself how long we as a counrty would last if we lost the will to fight and hoped our enemies would just leave us alone. Our military can not pick and choose what battles they want to fight so we should always stand behind them. And when you meet a vet i hope you would just be greatful for their service even if you have to lie about agreeing with they war they have fought. The last thing these men and women need to hear is that the risks they took and the injuries they may have suffered were for a bad cause.

Nobody's fighting for our freedom, our military hasn’t conducted a legitimate “defense of America” since at least WWII, and maybe as far back as the War of 1812, depending on whose Pearl Harbor narrative you believe. The biggest threat to my freedom in my lifetime was the Patriot Act. Our military has morphed into corporate Americas private army, so don't contend that the troops are doing honorable things, at the very least YOU can say that the people in the military had signed up to defend America; that they were being sent to a criminal war for profit on the other side of the globe wasn’t really their fault, they’d been tricked. You can say that, but I will not because these Troops volenteered, they weren’t shanghaied, they weren’t tricked into signing up and donning the uniform and picking up the gun. They sought out the role, they agreed to follow orders, they signed the papers, and nowhere along the way did they somehow become transformed from individual human beings, morally responsible for their individual acts of violence and destruction into those collectively romanticized “troops”. Some small number said, “I didn’t sign up for this,” and did the only moral thing possible, which was to desert. The rest marched freely onto the planes and ships and deployed, the willing agents of empire. Certainly in many, the thought was there afterward: “We didn’t sign up for that,” but still they went, perhaps finding their own moral cover in the notion they’d been tricked. Likely, most found no moral problem with going at all. Sorry-I'm not going to celebrate that while eating my dinner at The Golden Corral tonight because.....

Unjust, illegal wars do not just happen by themselves. They are the sum total of millions of individual decisions by millions of individually responsible people to obey, topped by whatever dark cabal is giving the orders for the week. Further, probably close to half or more of those still in Iraq today signed up after the war’s justifications had evaporated, after the stories of casual murder, collective punishment and institutionalized torture were already splashed on television screens and across newspaper headlines worldwide. They, especially, should have known better.


And "just doing their jobs"? Really? Thats what the Nazi soldiers said in Nuremburgh


And BTW, my father was career Air Force, after graduating from FSU. He flew F86-D's in the Korean War, and F-105's in Viet Nam, and I served almost 6 months flying for an Auxilary Branch of the Air Force..

KodiakJack wrote: Well this is as good a post as any for me to jump into this forum. The title interested me and i wasnt sure where it was going. I agree with the title but not with the content of your post. I don't know anybody that celebrates war but know a lot of people who celebrate the dirty job our military volnteers do.To not be greatful of the sacrifices these men and women make is completely foriegn to me.Maybe you have personal experiences that are much different than mine so I can't judge you based on what you are saying but I would hope that you know these men and women are just doing their jobs. If you think they should refuse to fight then you can't believe we should even have a military. In my opinion the only effective fighting force is one that follows orders no matter what. I think the people of this country need to speak up and demand change from our leaders and channel their anger at politicians and not at the military who just does what they are told.
My brotherserved in Iraq and now Afganistan and in my town he is one of many who is seen as a hero for choosing such a low paying job with very high importance.

And finally:

Screw all those who support the troops- If history, recent or ancient, hasn’t been sufficient to educate you on the true nature of war and the true nature of the predatory, inhuman power you seem so eager to serve, then damn you for your stupidity, damn you for your ignorance, damn you for your blindness, damn you for your fallacious morality. And this goes not only for every family member or friend of someone serving in the US military today who is NOT insistently urging their child or husband or wife or friend to desert or disobey, it goes also for every federal employee and for every shareholder and employee from janitor to CEO of the military-industrial-terrorism complex and the companies that comprise it: Blackwater, Halliburton, Boeing, General Dynamics, Allied-Signal, Unisys, Westinghouse, DynCorp, Exxon, Hewlett-Packard, EDS, Computer Sciences Corporation, IBM, Hughes, KBR, Kearfott, Lockheed-Martin, McDonnell Douglas, Mitsubishi, Motorola, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Shell, AT&T, Sikorsky, United Technologies and all the rest. There is blood on your hands, real human blood — lives taken, families shattered, homes destroyed, crops ruined, populations displaced, tortures committed, atrocities sanctioned, all facilitated by your unthinking, odious, ignorant, unconscionable support

END OF SUBJECT!

Mods, lock the thread please

Big Doug wrote:

KodiakJack wrote: Well this is as good a post as any for me to jump into this forum. The title interested me and i wasnt sure where it was going. I agree with the title but not with the content of your post. I don't know anybody that celebrates war but know a lot of people who celebrate the dirty job our military volnteers do.To not be greatful of the sacrifices these men and women make is completely foriegn to me.Maybe you have personal experiences that are much different than mine so I can't judge you based on what you are saying but I would hope that you know these men and women are just doing their jobs. If you think they should refuse to fight then you can't believe we should even have a military. In my opinion the only effective fighting force is one that follows orders no matter what. I think the people of this country need to speak up and demand change from our leaders and channel their anger at politicians and not at the military who just does what they are told.
My brotherserved in Iraq and now Afganistan and in my town he is one of many who is seen as a hero for choosing such a low paying job with very high importance.

And finally:

f*** all those who support the troops- If history, recent or ancient, hasn’t been sufficient to educate you on the true nature of war and the true nature of the predatory, inhuman power you seem so eager to serve, then damn you for your stupidity, damn you for your ignorance, damn you for your blindness, damn you for your fallacious morality. And this goes not only for every family member or friend of someone serving in the US military today who is NOT insistently urging their child or husband or wife or friend to desert or disobey, it goes also for every federal employee and for every shareholder and employee from janitor to CEO of the military-industrial-terrorism complex and the companies that comprise it: Blackwater, Halliburton, Boeing, General Dynamics, Allied-Signal, Unisys, Westinghouse, DynCorp, Exxon, Hewlett-Packard, EDS, Computer Sciences Corporation, IBM, Hughes, KBR, Kearfott, Lockheed-Martin, McDonnell Douglas, Mitsubishi, Motorola, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Shell, AT&T, Sikorsky, United Technologies and all the rest. There is blood on your hands, real human blood — lives taken, families shattered, homes destroyed, crops ruined, populations displaced, tortures committed, atrocities sanctioned, all facilitated by your unthinking, odious, ignorant, unconscionable support

Wow - i didn't think my post deserved this kind of response because I just gave my opinion. You obviously have some issues with the military which is made up of good people wanting to do a good job for their country and hopefully come home to a nation who appreciates them. You say they should disobey or go awol. Do you beleive we should have no military at all? because that's what you'll get when soldiers no longer do as they are told. Should soldiers during WWII have run away and refused to kill those like the Nazis because they didn't want blood on their hands? I don't know how you can have a military where individual soldiers can pick and choose which battles they want to fight. Maybe you think the majority of soldiers sign up just so they can legally kill people? I'm hoping you are just trying to stir things up because i can't imagine what other ideas you have in your head if you really believe what you say.