Militarization of the Homeland

akilina wrote:

plaidvillain wrote: I agree with you guys on this. The proliferation of constant surveillance is a great loss of freedom for all of us. But how do we stop it? Do we stop it? I mean, there is some case for maintaining a department that is charged with protecting our nation, but how do we control that agency from controlling us? Of course, we all voluntarily submit to this to some extent with our own internet usage, or carrying our cell phones with us, as these have become conveniences we appreciate...but can we have our conveniences and our liberties? Does one require the sacrifice of the other?

This doesn't seem to be a partisan issue to me. Both parties have supported the creation of this situation. It seems more a condition of our modern society. Society has requested increased security (or, at least, the impression of security), and increased technological conveniences. Is technology driving us towards sacrificing individual liberty and privacy?

We get what what we vote for. All this happening under our current Pres and Congress. Change it in 2014 and 2016.

Yes, but we have been voting for it for decades. You can argue which party is worse but politicians are mostly peas in a pod.

This is a rare instance where I can mostly agree with PV. I would just parse it a different way. Is society requesting this or is it being brought down upon us by the political class. IMO mostly the latter.

It's Morrison, I can see them using this equipment if the person doen't tip 15%.

cydl wrote:

plaidvillain wrote: Is technology driving us towards sacrificing individual liberty and privacy?

I think it is, and I don't know that there is a way to stop it. Even if one "unplugs" from the internet and cellular service and whathaveyou, is that really a viable option? How about payroll? Most companies don't want to give you a check - they want to do direct deposit. If you go to the bank to a teller window they want you to swipe your ATM card. But I think that technology is merely a symptom of the bigger problem - overpopulation - and that's another debate.

In the case of local law enforcement gearing up with military equipment there's always the option of stopping funding for that, but the congressional cry of "we need to combat terrorism" has become a mantra that no one seems to want to dispute - even at the cost of our civil liberties.

I think we're headed for scary times.

Have to agree we are headed for scarier times.

All the more reason to not have a cell phone or computer or use others. Libraries doesn't bother to check when you sign in to use the computers.

But most will succumb to the convenience.

I hear ya, Akilina, but this stuff happened under the other guys too. In fact, they kicked it all off, right? So what's our option? I agree with the Tea Party stances on personal liberties, but disagree with them on most other issues, and haven't been convinced the Tea Party is interested in personal liberties for ALL Americans. I like many of the Libertarian stances, but don't believe they've put forth a real contender for any power positions. Maybe if we can get some smaller party reps into Congress, we could get somewhere on issues the Reps/Dems don't want to address. Is it possible for the independents, the smaller parties to still win elections considering how Citizen's United has brought so much money, even foreign money, into our political process?

It is fair to discuss whether we need or agree with having a Dept of Homeland Security at all. We have seen our government stop multiple potential terrorist attacks, so I'm glad we've prevented injury/death. Is it just that the Dept's powers have gotten too large, too much potential for control of the citizenry? How do keep the reigns on this possibly necessary beast?

Martin Ent Inc wrote: It's Morrison, I can see them using this equipment if the person doen't tip 15%.

lol

They will use their equipment to just run over your vehicle so you can't speed any more then haul it off and collect on scrap metal.

You would think after being 16 trillion dollars in debt, we could cut back on the police militarization pork.
It used to be that the police could buy surplus military equipment like Thompson submachine guns at a severe discount but now they just get fat checks to buy purpose built equipment that mainly sits around rusting.

Drones:

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2012/12/06 ... eady-here/

I think that both parties are too much in the pocket of corporate interests. Our government hasn't been "by and for the people" for a long time. Don't know what the answer to that is either - the other parties aren't able to garner enough media attention to even make their positions known to most of the electorate. Can't believe how many people I heard say after the election "Geez, I didn't know that many people were running for president!"

DHS, like every other bureaucracy, has passed it's infancy and now is more about self-preservation than the public interest. My personal opinion is that when a bureaucracy is formed it is done for a generally legitimate reason and actually does some good at the outset. But then it degenerates into sucking up the taxpayer gravy and simply evolves into being another sinkhole for our money.

I don't see any reason on earth why local law enforcement needs tanks, drones, artillery, RPG's, what-have-you.

They are afraid, the people have almost had enough and what is to follow?
2012 new report shows Militia's are on the rise and many have been in palce for 40 Years or more.
They are not even having to recruit.

cydl wrote: I think that both parties are too much in the pocket of corporate interests. Our government hasn't been "by and for the people" for a long time. Don't know what the answer to that is either - the other parties aren't able to garner enough media attention to even make their positions known to most of the electorate. Can't believe how many people I heard say after the election "Geez, I didn't know that many people were running for president!"

DHS, like every other bureaucracy, has passed it's infancy and now is more about self-preservation than the public interest. My personal opinion is that when a bureaucracy is formed it is done for a generally legitimate reason and actually does some good at the outset. But then it degenerates into sucking up the taxpayer gravy and simply evolves into being another sinkhole for our money.

I don't see any reason on earth why local law enforcement needs tanks, drones, artillery, RPG's, what-have-you.

Agree with much of what you say cydl. But being a realist, it will be, for now, one of the major parties who get into power. So knowing that, time to look for congressional people who more closely reflect our views and will not roll over.

Local law enforcement will take because it is available to them whether they need it or not. Such a waste of our money.