Guns and Crime

The intention of posting this is simply to assist in education. While there are many here who would willingly engage in civil discussion with respect, while maintaining disagreement, there are also too many who will eagerly stomp all over it with hell bent emotion. I'd encourage any and all who wish to participate in civil pro/con discussion to please do so, but how many times has this been asked of by so many here? (Ironically it sort of proves the whole 'bad apple' thing in retrospect.... interesting.)

Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter my skill at the game, all they seem to do is knock over the pieces, crap on the board, then strut and squak like they've won the game.

But onto the point of this topic. I'd like to share with you a blog by friends Jeff and all at M.A.C. Well written and including some of the very points we've even discussed in here before in other topics.

http://militaryarms.blogspot.com/2012/12/guns-and-crime.html


Lastly, I'd like to take a moment to offer heartfelt condolences to victims and families of ALL crimes throughout history. None such actions can rival the evils of our own mankind.


Badger

A very good read. In the wake of something as horrible as this it's easy to fall into knee-jerk reactions that may sound like a good idea but really do nothing to solve any problems. And unfortunately there is a significant amount of that going on, fanned by the media IMO.

I have said this before, but I'll restate that I feel we need to take a hard look at our mental health "system" in this country - we have little if any infrastructure in place to get folks like this and the previous three or four gravely ill folks who have perpetrated massacres off the streets and into some sort of treatment.

We need to eliminate "gun-free" zones. They are an open invitation to evil to attack and not expect any consequences. Security on schools needs to be hardened. Adults in those schools need to be better trained and (if they desire) armed to prevent attacks such as these.

Finally, we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and pointing fingers and calling names at each other - that's not only counterproductive but playing right into the hands of evil.

Another good article of interest: http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/18/15977143-gun-control-offers-no-cure-all-in-america?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=5

BadgerKustoms wrote: The intention of posting this is simply to assist in education. While there are many here who would willingly engage in civil discussion with respect, while maintaining disagreement, there are also too many who will eagerly stomp all over it with hell bent emotion. I'd encourage any and all who wish to participate in civil pro/con discussion to please do so, but how many times has this been asked of by so many here? (Ironically it sort of proves the whole 'bad apple' thing in retrospect.... interesting.)

Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter my skill at the game, all they seem to do is knock over the pieces, crap on the board, then strut and squak like they've won the game.

But onto the point of this topic. I'd like to share with you a blog by friends Jeff and all at M.A.C. Well written and including some of the very points we've even discussed in here before in other topics.

http://militaryarms.blogspot.com/2012/12/guns-and-crime.html


Lastly, I'd like to take a moment to offer heartfelt condolences to victims and families of ALL crimes throughout history. None such actions can rival the evils of our own mankind.


Badger

I began reading your post with anticipation. Your posit sounded very reasonable (still does). But as soon as I began reading the blog you posted a link to, I became somewhat disillusioned. Not that everything in the blog was bad, but that a particular statement was made making it clear the poster believed pro-gun folks are all the good guys and anti-gun folks are, well, just plain old bad guys. In my own research, I've found there's plenty of extremism going both ways. That's why I'm including a link here to my own blog in which the linked to post discusses this very issue. We all need to step back, take a collective deep breath, and come at these kinds of issues from a non-confrontational perspective, pro-gun and anti-gun both.

http://thepeacechallenge.blogspot.com/2012/12/sowhats-next.html

cydl wrote: A very good read. In the wake of something as horrible as this it's easy to fall into knee-jerk reactions that may sound like a good idea but really do nothing to solve any problems. And unfortunately there is a significant amount of that going on, fanned by the media IMO.

I have said this before, but I'll restate that I feel we need to take a hard look at our mental health "system" in this country - we have little if any infrastructure in place to get folks like this and the previous three or four gravely ill folks who have perpetrated massacres off the streets and into some sort of treatment.

We need to eliminate "gun-free" zones. They are an open invitation to evil to attack and not expect any consequences. Security on schools needs to be hardened. Adults in those schools need to be better trained and (if they desire) armed to prevent attacks such as these.

Finally, we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and pointing fingers and calling names at each other - that's not only counterproductive but playing right into the hands of evil.

Another good article of interest: http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/18/15977143-gun-control-offers-no-cure-all-in-america?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=5

You are correct - there is no panacea including elimination of gun free zones. Arming teachers is a much discussed topic as well. Perhaps a study should be conducted to collect empirical data that would support or debunk the idea of arming teachers. Maybe it would help in the issue of putting God back in our schools, as well. This link to my tongue in cheek proposal to address these issues explains how these issues might be addressed (please take it with a grain of salt cuz, as you've stated regarding mental health issues, the problem is very complex needing complex and sometimes unpalatable solutions).

http://thepeacechallenge.blogspot.com/2012/12/put-this-in-your-pipe-and-smoke-it.html

Didn't Columbine happen during the last AW ban?

A lot of the solutions I am hearing wouldn't have changed anything in CT.

FredHayek wrote: Didn't Columbine happen during the last AW ban?

A lot of the solutions I am hearing wouldn't have changed anything in CT.

So, once again it would appear advocating "doing nothing" is the "preferred" choice? Solving the issue of gun violence is a multi-faceted process. It is not exclusive of anything on this issue. A lot of the solutions offered by anyone, if taken at singular face value, wouldn't have changed anything in CT, period. Taken together, facilitating a paradigm shift in how we view/feel/treat each other, maybe we can make a difference. Remaining rigid in our approach to the issues surrounding each of these tragedies won't accomplish anything.

TEACH PEACE!

So, once again it would appear advocating "doing nothing" is the "preferred" choice? Solving the issue of gun violence is a multi-faceted process. It is not exclusive of anything on this issue. A lot of the solutions offered by anyone, if taken at singular face value, wouldn't have changed anything in CT, period. Taken together, facilitating a paradigm shift in how we view/feel/treat each other, maybe we can make a difference. Remaining rigid in our approach to the issues surrounding each of these tragedies won't accomplish anything.

I haven't heard anyone say "do nothing". What I have heard is that there are things that can be done other than re-hash tired old arguments that have been tried and failed in the past.

cydl wrote:

So, once again it would appear advocating "doing nothing" is the "preferred" choice? Solving the issue of gun violence is a multi-faceted process. It is not exclusive of anything on this issue. A lot of the solutions offered by anyone, if taken at singular face value, wouldn't have changed anything in CT, period. Taken together, facilitating a paradigm shift in how we view/feel/treat each other, maybe we can make a difference. Remaining rigid in our approach to the issues surrounding each of these tragedies won't accomplish anything.

I haven't heard anyone say "do nothing". What I have heard is that there are things that can be done other than re-hash tired old arguments that have been tried and failed in the past.

Rehashing of tired old arguments that have been tried and failed in the past can be attributed to both sides on this issue, in my opinion. Neither side is guilt free in this. Both are strident, rigid, and inflexible.

Sharing this piece from a "liberal" gun owner:

http://samuel-warde.com/2012/12/letter-from-a-liberal-gun-owner/

The bottom line is that there are very ill and/or evil people in the world and there will not always be intervention available when the evil presents itself. The most we can do is manage the risks to the best of our ability. 9/11 was committed by evil persons with boxcutters. The OKC bomber committed his evil with fertlizer and diesel fuel. The largest school massacre in the US was committed by a janitor filling the basement of the school with explosives over a period of time. Could any of those been stopped? Possibly, but the circumstances were such that they were not stopped for any number of reasons.

The one big issue that stands out for me in the recent rash of evil behavior is the common denominator of mental illness that is well documented and untreated/unchecked. Seems to me that if these people had received some sort of treatment or had been hospitalized when family, friends and professionals expressed concern that none of these events would have happened.