ready to pay 1/3 of the cost of health ins 4 small biz?

How about 1/2?

This is based not on some article by a journalist so I know many will ignore this as bunk I came up with. Despite that, this is based on the IRS form at the bottom of the page. That is my source and that is a better source than an article written about the form. Then I use logic to come to my conclusions. I am wondering if my logic is faulty so I post it here. I think we are about to allow businesses with 10 or fewer employees to make the federal govt pay for 1/3 of their health insurance premiums if they provide coverage and if they are small, they could even profit from proving coverage.

It seems like if you have a business with say a husband, a wife and one employee were say the husband and wife were buying insurance and not doing anything for the employee that the new health insurance law may make it cheap or free to insure that employee at the public's expense.

My understanding is that such a company, if it were to provide insurance for all 3 of them, be allowed get a credit (not a measly deduction) of 35% (over 1/3) of the expense of the health insurance. This seems like for a three person company, with two owners or an owner employing a spouse or child, would be able to get the employee coverage for no additional out of pocket cost, may even get a kickback, all from other folks that pay their federal taxes.

This is a very common structure for a small firm, I have operated under that scenario of many of my years in business.

What do you guys think about this, if the word gets out, which it is, taxpayers will be paying for 100% or more employee coverage for numerous very small businesses. Since everyone, including the bosses will have to have coverage, there will be even more of these as in the past, many owners likely just went without, I often do. I have ventures that would qualify. From reading, it seems that up to 10 employees that the federal govt will foot the bill for 35% of the expense, pretty much 1/3 of all companies with 10 or less employees get 1/3 of their health insurance paid by the fed.

I think it is going to go larger than 35% in 2014....it goes to 50%
that means that the public will cover 50% of the expense of the insurance for these firms....or get this if the firm is JUST the husband and the wife, ONE of them gets free coverage....or get this. If you are paying for 100% of your own insurance, you can start a small company, make a little of this or that and sell it, and get 1/2 of your health insurance for free....just for starting your little candle company in the kitchen with your kids and profiting off anything as large as 1/2 your health insurance. You get the insurance and you get to keep the profit. If you don't try for the profit, you just have to pay for the insurance. I am squeezing my eyes together at this, I am just boggled at the games that folks could legally play, might even BE LEGALLY REQUIRED TO PLAY.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8941.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Small-Business-H ... -Employers

Did you guys expect this? What am I missing. And if this is the case, and you work for a firm with more than 10 employees (meaning you are footing the bill), my employees that were previously uninsured that may be insured by my company by the end of the day tomorrow, thank you. What's up with being good to small business? That's not what we do.

This seems like if true, is kind of a big deal, was not really talked about, but if payed attention to provides a lot of incentive for some weird business activity to get major discounts or services.

:thumbsup:

Any minds out there strong enough to wrap their heads around this.

Fred - you are a famous economist? What am I missing?

on that note wrote: This seems like if true, is kind of a big deal, was not really talked about, but if payed attention to provides a lot of incentive for some weird business activity to get major discounts or services.

:thumbsup:

Any minds out there strong enough to wrap their heads around this.

Fred - you are a famous economist? What am I missing?

Definitely not mine. I paided people for that stuff. Years ago I knew of people with very good salaried jobs that started some kind piss ant home business to avoid taxes.

OTN this is the small business HC tax credit in the ACA. It has been mentioned before. From what I have read it has not been well received by businesses, hard to qualify for, low participation, complicated, and anyway it expires in 2016. In other words, a typical temporary government bureaucratic mess that sounds good but the devil is in the details. And more employment for tax consultants.

Here are some articles if you are interested. BTW IMO it is fair to offer these credits to small businesses, in order to match the tax advantages large group insurance plans have @ big companies. They just implemented it poorly IMO. Good luck using it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/ ... le-impact/

http://www.businessweek.com/small-busin ... 52011.html

Our accountant put it to us this way - we could pay him to spend the time to walk us through all the hoops or we could just forget it. But then he knows our business and what is in our best interests.

Why not just fill out the simple form and get the credit. I have an accountant, he already has all that info to fill out the form, the forms change every year. It should take him or her a few minutes and could bill you at $150 an hour for 15 minutes and you should come out way ahead, ahead by 35% of your health insurances expenses minus $37.50.

Just sayin, I am amazed at the stuff other people's accountants tell them.

So I think he was saying, "I am big and fancy and even though it will save you $1000s, it will be a micro extra effort for me and I don't like any extra effort" this is the same reason a realtor does not like to hold out for $2000 more on price, they only get 5%. Kill as sale house sale over $100, nah. Look like I am more expensive even though it will save my client lots, nah.

I suggest you just fill out the form and give it to him with your books when he prepares your taxes, easy peasy. That form is pretty easy to fill out if you know:

how many FTE employees you have,
how much their gross was and
how much you paid for health insurance.

I don't think it will take that much time to find that info for you or him/her.

LOL wrote: OTN this is the small business HC tax credit in the ACA. It has been mentioned before. From what I have read it has not been well received by businesses, hard to qualify for, low participation, complicated, and anyway it expires in 2016. In other words, a typical temporary government bureaucratic mess that sounds good but the devil is in the details. And more employment for tax consultants.

Here are some articles if you are interested. BTW IMO it is fair to offer these credits to small businesses, in order to match the tax advantages large group insurance plans have @ big companies. They just implemented it poorly IMO. Good luck using it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/ ... le-impact/

http://www.businessweek.com/small-busin ... 52011.html

I know it was mentioned, I am just not sure people knew how big it was. I think it may have been passed off as complicated or may have been only recently nailed out.

I guess this is a case of having to correct for the issues that the law creates with other provisions.

The one thing I noticed is that not one single of our resident Obamacare cheerleaders has responded in any way to this thread. Not surprising really.

OTN, if you qualify - go for it. Maybe you are one of the lucky few that meet the government standard!

My experience with the tax code is I spend hours reading the requirements and publications only to find out at the end of all the hoops to jump thru, bEEEPP BUZZZZZ, sorry you don't qualify. Goto line 78, bend over, and pay tax. NEXT! LOL

Perhaps I will get the reality check when I proceed. I still have not called my accountant on this yet, to busy writing and getting worked up about 285bound...

With respect to those that support the ACA, especially with this one, I do not expect them or most to understand every detail, this stuff overall is complex. For them to respond in theme with recent discussions without just throwing the same old stuff around, they would have to do some research to respond and I don't think that I expect anyone who is not really interested in implementing it at this point to do that. As this is not really a political commentary on the ACA, more of a procedural - did you know and am I wrong, kind of thread. I hate to say it, but unless it goes back up for legislative or court debate, the primarily political part of the ACA is over. It does not matter who supported it, it matters how you are subject to it.

But I understand where you are coming from on the time potentially wasted, as you may have seen, I am a bit rabid when it comes to persistence. At times, I over invest and that is an understatement.

I wonder if it will really end.

In talking to folks in Mass. and based on most folks I know being pretty busy. I am guessing that many people will actually just keep doing what they are doing based on their desires and budget and just get hit with the fine if it applies. I could see myself, short of these tax credits, buckling down with life as usual and not having the time to even really evaluate insurance policies for a year or two and just going without, as I often do.

Why do I get the feeling that the ACA will start a whole new lawyer boom in the next decade with taxpayers once again on the hook?