Some thoughts on change.

Seems like on these local boards there are a number (perhaps many, perhaps just a vocal few) that strongly desire specific and general changes.

I write this to ask people to think out of the box. I feel that many have been convinced that "working within the system" is the only way. Since the common system allows you to elect a few individuals for years and allow them to make many decisions on their own, attempts at change often fail or fall on deaf ears.

Some things discussed recently are recalls, disproportionate use of public funds and invasion of property rights. As the wheel goes round and round seems like the only solutions being discussed are that of getting new people in current offices that may hint that they could support such change and most assume that such changes won't happen and it will be as simple as the vote did not pass.

So here are a few of my out of the box ideas....and they all start with referendum or pushing the BOCC for a public vote. I bet they have a better chance of success than wishing on a current candidate to change things. These items can happen together or separate.

1. Seems like Park Co and Jeff Co both have two personalities but also share one. You have urban/suburban Jeffco and then Foothills Jeffco. You have Foothills Parkco (bailey) and then the Park. I suggest we need ANOTHER COUNTY. I am not in Jeffco, but I bet the needs of the foothills get lost in the welfare urban needs just as the needs of the Park get lost in Bailey (though it may seem the other way around). I suggest a new county, call it Pine County and it can incorporate everything from C-470 to Kenosha. Then interests may be better served and money can stay local.

2. People can consider incorporating your subdivision or area. Once incorporated, you can have your own cops, your own building department and your own plows. The county is only there to take care of spaces not incorporated.

3. Consider adding commissioners to the board. Either a redistricting or even a commissioner at large. More votes, more perspectives, more local representation. Even district 3 is very large and I get the impression that the north is generally a bit more into regulation and big govt than the south, perhaps separate representation, codes and zoning would work better and make people happier.

4. Consider writing any of your own laws, zoning or otherwise and be specific as to not drag someone 30 miles away into your neighborhood needs. Consider adding department heads to the elected officials list. You can write a law just as the BOCC does and put it to a vote with a few signatures.

Seems to me that a recall election will be very divisive (which is ok, but) and people would be more inclined to vote for something positive (like new local zoning districts with local voting, a new commissioner position, more voting rights) than something negative (get rid of him, his is bad and SHE will be much better).

Just some thoughts.

Brilliant idea, I'm surprised this has never been floated before. Where do I sign?

I like your thinking here. I have always thought that the mentality from one side of the park to the other did not match well and it really seems as though the bailey side is more inclined to the evergreen mentality. No offense intended one way or the other. I believe that the separation would give both sides more satisfaction and more local representation. Great thoughts to ponder and look into for everyone.

I don't know if dividing up the county would be practical or easy to do, but districts with different taxes and spending priorities (like roads) might work. I'd pay more for roads, but I am not sure I would be excited about sports and rec spending. Good topic for ideas though!

The concept of splitting the existing Park County into two separate counties isn't particularly new, PosterYoYo, but it is still a valid one, nonetheless. In fact, this could be a good time to start inquiring of our State legislators as to exactly what it would take to make your excellent suggestion a reality. And there's a recent precedent: the City and County of Broomfield. One way to find out would be to inquire of the Broomfield City Government: [url=http://www.ci.broomfield.co.us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;]www.ci.broomfield.co.us[/url] .

Wow. 1st let me say this may be the first time in my life that more than one person agreed slightly with me at one time.

If people could get behind such a concept, I think Joe has the correct 1st idea and perhaps a candidate like Samantha could get behind such a thing as well (win or loose),

If one were to look at Park County alone, without going through the state division and reincorporation of county concept, one could simply structure money and decisions differently from within. This is already done within special districts for schools and fire protection.

So what departments does the county share: Law Enforcement, Building, Planning, Road and Bridge, Clerk, what am I missing.

So let's say that you create (now this is from my limited POV, those more experienced, please suggest alts) administrative districts.

1. District 1
2. District 2
3. Jefferson Como Area
4. Alma Fairplay Corridor
5. Central Park (south of Fairplay to Trout Crk Pass to Hartsel)
6. Southern Park (south of Hartsel)

So now these administrative districts could function one of two ways:

1. They could be much like the special districts with their own internal government, rules and decisions
2. They could be subsections of current departments with differing adminstration protocalls for some activities.

I think that #2 is far more realistic.

so

1. The Sheriffs office has deputies that can focus on particular districts (this is likely already they way they work or some other more locally logical system). Perhaps they need not be included in such a change, or they just modify current systems slightly for some new administrative lines. The laws they enforce would not be different.

2. The clerk, I think, should be excluded as well. No need to make more work out of the same amount of people in this case. Winers please keep unrelated clerk concerns out of this particular thread. In similar theme could be purchasing, treasurer, assessor and the like.

3. Planning and building, though obviously different in function, seem to both qualify for the same reason. For example these two departments could simply administer slightly different codes and zoning, decided more locally within a zone.

4. Road and Bridge, I am guessing, functions much like the SO in regards to they attack their job over the terrain.

On to distribution of funds. I guess that Road and Bridge funds could stay within district. Building is self funded for the most part, perhaps such a clear division could justify reasonable fees in Planning and a reduction of their burden on the general funds. That being said I am generally against fees in either of these departments, because the are justified for the public at large, but in order to facilitate more local decisions on regulation, for the the time, it may make sense. Once a program is in place, perhaps a better financing program, decided locally, would be found.

So what does this feel like, besides the waves of transition:

1. Your allocated road funds for the zone will stay local, and you will have more input, perhaps via an unpaid volunteer road and bridge rep.

2. Your zone can make its own zoning and building standards and decide where to apply them.

3. The SO and R/B may make some minor adjustments in how they view county zones, perhaps they have a suggestion on how to microdistribute the zones better.

4. The BOCC would oversee these depts. as always, there just may be some varying laws, that are clearly spelled out. Perhaps every new district actually results in a BOCC member.

5. There would have to be some fees where things cost more to administer differently - I really feel this goes to planning as R/B are already funded and building charges the permit puller. Perhaps higher fees where there is more zoning and checking.

6. There would be VOLUNTEER, elected, unpaid reps from each district, or new BOCC members, they can bridge the gap between the people and their zones or districts and the BOCC, if they are not the BOCC.

We should check with the state about PINE county, likely a harder battle and many more people would likely have to agree in Jeffco and perhaps statewide. My sense of how it works is that some counties exist based on the constitution and others due to the will or request of the people, but from way back when, but the process of division of counties that I assume happened back then, could still apply today.

I would be glad to work with Samantha Lillian or anyone on this or any issue that gives people more of a voice. I think much if the tension in the world, let alone our county comes from a bit to much overlap in government, let alone big government. Americans are not always like Iraqis, just like New Yorkers are not always like Coloradians, just like Denver people are not always like Park County people, just like those from Bailey do not always understand the ways of Hartsel. In many cases if we can choose our path with our neighbors rather than someone 30 or 300 or 3000 miles away, we would have less to fight about.

yoyo, thanks for reading. Remember that 10% in regards to such things is not failure, it is 10%.

The "Splitting" of a county has been around for years--its
called incorporation.
To start from scratch would be similar to the current LURs
started by Park county in early 2000's. Its an invitation
to create loopholes.
To recall is the last thing available to the people that hasn't
been watered down and covered with immunities. There
is no negotiating-it just sweeps them out. To negotiate
with Pk cty has been done everyday-with a deaf ear in return.

If recalled/sweeped out. An administrator known as Mr or Mrs
"B"(The Bastard) moves in to whittle down the spending
and what appears to be triple the employees that other
muncipalities carry based on population. Any work on
not needed contruction projects (Sport Stadium + Command/
Telecommunications bunker)would be halted and torn down
per peoples request.

interesting thoughts and ideas.

but do i dare say but. what you are talking about is very expensive and i doubt that you will get a vote of the people of park and jeffco willing to allow a new county and they lose their revenue.

soooooo the really short term good solution is to select a commissioner and sheriff who will represent your wishes and concerns.

and if they don't, having lived here for awhile, i have seen recalls work out very well. people didn't think they were being adequately represented and yanked them out of office. it can be done again. maybe not a cheap proposition but much, much cheaper than trying to create a new county.

what about showing up enmasse to county commissioner meetings and making wishes known if the commissioners don't respond to letters and phone calls. get on the agenda and provide input. they will listen especially if they know there are enough who don't feel their needs are being represented. and then also listen to what they have to say. they may have good reason for what they are doing.

i think overall there are more short term solutions that would be more effective.

If you incorporate and have your own cops and government, doesn't that mean more taxes for those living within the incorporated area? You can't get that stuff for free.

Wayne Harrison wrote: If you incorporate and have your own cops and government, doesn't that mean more taxes for those living within the incorporated area? You can't get that stuff for free.

PosterYoYo,

Reinforcing what Wayne said above, this will not work because of the following.

1.) The entities that you are making reference to would each need to be organized under either a metropolitan district (government) or a special district (more government).

2.) Their are legal cost to organize each district referenced in item 1, above.

3.) Their would be a cost to have the organizational initiative on the ballot, based on the defined geographical boundaries of the district(s) referenced in item 1, above.

4.) When a district is organized, it typically loses the benefit of FREE county services. This means if you did not create an InterGovernmental Agreement (IGA), you would have to bear the cost of such services. IGAs have a cost as well.

5.) Each district would require a board which typically involves salaries.

6.) Each district would have to supply its own services as eluded to in item 4, above. Those services include, but are not limited to, law enforcement, fire, sanitation, water, planning/zoning, building, jail (if new county), courthouse (if new county), clerk (if new county), etc.

7.) With regards to paying for all of the above, how would the revenue come in? INCREASE PROPERTY TAXES? Yeah, right!

8.) If you can not raise property taxes, will you vote in a sales tax? Let's say you do. Does your district have sufficient business to raise sales tax? They would have to be located in your district for you to "potentially" receive tax benefit.

9.) Okay, so you are good and you convince Wally World to build a supercenter in your town of 223 folks, you voted in a sales tax and all 223 of you shop there. Did you know that the county currently has municipalities within in the county boundaries that are currently charging sales tax? In fact, the tax rates are at the highest allowed by TABOR. What this means, is that if you wish to add a sales tax, you will need to "buy down" the other municipality's tax so that you do not cause an excess TABOR collection. That is a completely different issue that we do not have the time to discuss.


While I appreciate your desire to see an end to the good ole boy establishment in this county, you in effect, would be creating multiple good ole boy networks, all within one county.


As MTNTrekker put it,

"soooooo the really short term good solution is to select a commissioner and sheriff who will represent your wishes and concerns."


Why not get collectively behind voting these folks out by building an army, search for LEADERSHIP grade folks that will PROACTIVELY bring in a solid business base to this county, AND elect them.

Best wishes!