Raising the Debt Ceiling Does Not Increase The Debt

Why would you only look at capital gains tax for revenue......is that the only option you can think of for raising revenue?

FredHayek wrote: [

Due to higher capital gains taxes this year, the Feds have taken in a record amount of revenue, but we are still spending much, much more than we are taking in..

Fred, you are saying the gov will take in more money this year then ever before in the history of the universe and we are still running a deficit? That can't be right. You must be lying. The lack of a link proves you are lying. The ministry of truth says so. :rofllol

archer wrote: Why would you only look at capital gains tax for revenue......is that the only option you can think of for raising revenue?

lol I don't want to give Obama any more ideas?

Blazer Bob wrote:

FredHayek wrote: [

Due to higher capital gains taxes this year, the Feds have taken in a record amount of revenue, but we are still spending much, much more than we are taking in..

Fred, you are saying the gov will take in more money this year then ever before in the history of the universe and we are still running a deficit? That can't be right. You must be lying. The lack of a link proves you are lying. The ministry of truth says so. :rofllol

And the deficit is shrinking.....revenue works, and reduced spending works, but ONLY when they are used together.

Especially when the POTUS agrees to meet and work together with the opposistion party on a compromise instead of going on tour to talk to micro-managed crowds. Like when "W" met with Pelosi & Reid to work on fixing the Great Recession by bailing out Wall Street, banks, and the auto industry.

archer wrote:

Blazer Bob wrote:

FredHayek wrote: [

Due to higher capital gains taxes this year, the Feds have taken in a record amount of revenue, but we are still spending much, much more than we are taking in..

Fred, you are saying the gov will take in more money this year then ever before in the history of the universe and we are still running a deficit? That can't be right. You must be lying. The lack of a link proves you are lying. The ministry of truth says so. :rofllol

And the deficit is shrinking.....revenue works, and reduced spending works, but ONLY when they are used together.

We have raised revenue. Now lets reduce spending.

Rick wrote:

archer wrote: We SHOULD have gotten serious years....decades....ago. What we have is unsustainable. But that cannot be done by only cutting spending. Austerity is not the answer, not if we want to grow and prosper as a nation. There have to be new and increased revenue sources. There is a price to pay for living and doing business in this great country.

So we finally agree on something. So we have to rely on one of two parties to be the bad guys, cut up the credit cards, and stop making unsustainable promises in order to buy votes. It will take ppressure from the masses to do that, but unfortunately half the country is dependant and growing... so is there there really any hope left?

The FIRST bolded......you expect to fix this in 4 or 6 years when it took DECADES to come to e
fubar we find ourselves mired in? PARTISAN Politics is the weak and ineffective solution for the
simple minded.....it takes an extraordinary amount of courage,strength or "balls" to think out of
the box, put your ego aside and COMPROMISE.....NO ONE gets all they want NO ONE......

The SECOND bolded.....THIS is what Jekyll was speaking of.....the masses are NOT vested in
the outcome nor do they have the first clue about what it takes to grab ahold of a problem and MAKE the outcome THEIRS and not the elites of this world.....I have had this conversation
with my brother (most recently and he lives in ALASKA....born and raised in the far north....his
view is EXACTLY Jekyll's post.....let the world as we know it FAIL and then the pieces can be
sorted out and made whole again.....the result? A government that would ACTUALLY work the
way it was designed to work and a people that ACTUALLY would have a vested interest in making CERTAIN it would stay that way....of course, JMO......

archer wrote: PS.....that's like saying that the money/payments you owe on your mortgage or credit cards isn't money you have already spent. you can't decide to not pay them without consequences.. And like any responsible family, if you owe more than you are making you deal with that issue not by defaulting on what you have already promised but by balancing your budget with increased revenue and decreased spending. There are two sides to the ledger .....

No one has purchased the labor of federal employees as of yet archer, which would be the case with legal loan documents like credit card agreements, mortgages or federal bonds. You are not entitled to the appropriations of Congress for Social Security or Medicare, the Supreme Court of the Union has already informed you of this in the 1960's and in the original challenge to the law which established that it was an annual tax levy and an annual appropriation of the tax revenue resulting from that annual tax levy. Your individual welfare benefits are not like a credit card or a home mortgage. The interest and principle on the federal debt is, but not the spending associated with the entitlement programs or with any part of the discretionary budget. Those are more like my promising to show up and help you paint your house on Saturday. If I don't show up, I may have inconvenienced you, I may have disappointed you, I may have upset you, but I most certainly have not defaulted on a legal obligation that I have to you.

Looks like the link didn't work earlier. So will this work?

Everyone's Talking About This Sneaky Solution To The Debt Ceiling That Might Be Even Better Than The Platinum Coin
http://www.businessinsider.com/treasury ... ds-2013-10

Levine provides a simple, clear explanation of how super-premium Treasury issuance could help the Treasury Department to get around the debt ceiling:

The U.S. government takes in $277 billion in tax revenues each month, and spends $452 billion each month, for a monthly deficit of around $175 billion.**
It also has, on average, call it $100 billion of Treasury notes coming due each month.***
Instead of just rolling those Treasuries -- paying them off at 100 cents on the dollar by issuing new Treasuries at 100 cents on the dollar -- it should pay them off at 100 cents on the dollar by issuing new Treasuries at 275 cents on the dollar and using the extra money to pay its bills. The 10-year yield today is around 2.6 percent, so you could sell a 10-year with a 23 percent coupon for 275 cents on the dollar.**** The 30-year is about 3.9 percent, so a 14 percent coupon should get you there. Etc. Math here.
That's it. You aren't adding debt, so you never hit the debt ceiling, but you keep getting more money...

"Another plus is that default would be off the table."

..But how does this allow the Treasury to get around the debt ceiling?

"The debt ceiling applies to the face amount of bonds, not the amount raised, so selling a $100 bond for $275 only counts $100 against the debt ceiling and gets you $175 in debt-ceiling-free money," says Levine. "There are rules against issuing premium Treasury bonds, but the rules are just Treasury rules and they can be changed unilaterally by Treasury with no notice and no Congressional approval."