ACLU sues baker for discrimination

Rick....I see it from a HUMANISTIC point of view.....these two HUMANS wanted to HONOR this
joyous occasion with a confectionery treat...like any other couple who are in love.....an issue
of RESPECT is involved here....love is love....as a metaphysical person I already posted what
an entirely DIFFERENT scenario would look like....from a evolved perspective.....two souls found
each other AGAIN and that,in itself, should be granted respect/honor......JMO

homeagain wrote: Rick....I see it from a HUMANISTIC point of view.....these two HUMANS wanted to HONOR this
joyous occasion with a confectionery treat...like any other couple who are in love.....an issue
of RESPECT is involved here....love is love....as a metaphysical person I already posted what
an entirely DIFFERENT scenario would look like....from a evolved perspective.....two souls found
each other AGAIN and that,in itself, should be granted respect/honor......JMO

I agree, but the shop owner also has his right of conscience and he does not hold a monopoly on cake baking.

The baker offered to bake a cake. They just wanted a product that this merchant does not offer. Should we now force all Verizon phone stores to also sell AT&T products. After all, it is the same line of business and if someone wants that product Verizon should be forced to sell it to them.

Why is it so hard for some here to understand the difference between what the merchant sells and who the merchant sells it to? The baker does make wedding cakes, he refused to sell one to a gay couple. That is discrimination.

archer wrote: Why is it so hard for some here to understand the difference between what the merchant sells and who the merchant sells it to? The baker does make wedding cakes, he refused to sell one to a gay couple. That is discrimination.

Why is it so damn hard for you to understand that the baker offered to sell a cake to them just not the exact product that they wanted because he does not make that product.

Ronbo wrote:

archer wrote: Why is it so hard for some here to understand the difference between what the merchant sells and who the merchant sells it to? The baker does make wedding cakes, he refused to sell one to a gay couple. That is discrimination.

Why is it so damn hard for you to understand that the baker offered to sell a cake to them just not the exact product that they wanted because he does not make that product.

You are 100% wrong. The baker made wedding cakes, sold wedding cakes to heterosexual couples, but refused to sell a wedding cake of any kind to this couple solely based on their sexual orientation. The baker admitted in this in the case, that he would not sell a wedding cake to a gay couple. The couple never discussed any decoration of any kind on the cake, nor even the type of cake, only that they desired a wedding cake to celebrate their recent nuptials. At that time the baker said that he would not sell them a wedding cake as he did not approve of gay marriage.

You might want to get your facts correct before castigating others.

PrintSmith wrote:

archer wrote: So tell me.... If I pick a cake out of a catalogue of wedding cakes that you make, can you refuse to make it for me because I'm gay? I say no, you can't, what do you think?

I say I am able to refuse to create it for you for any reason or no reason at all. It is my ability, my labor, that is the subject of the contract. I cannot be required to contract that labor against my own will, against my own conscience. That is involuntary servitude, which the Constitution of the Union prohibits. I may not be forced to work for you or for anyone else by any law. To do so robs me of my rights to labor for those only of my choosing. You may not compel me to work for you archer, you are not entitled to my services, you have no claim on them, no rights to them. I am not your servant, I am not obligated to you in any fashion. I may choose to enter into a contract with you for my labor or I may refuse to enter into a contract with you, the choice is not yours and yours alone to make. I must be a willing party to the contract, or the contract is not one which is enforcable upon me.

A wedding cake is a contracted item. It requires two willing parties to establish a contract. I may refuse to enter into such a contract for any reason at all, or no reason at all other than I do not wish to be a party to the contract.

You are of course absolutely wrong. In Colorado, if you operate a place of public accomodation, then you may not discriminate against individuals based on their race, creed, color, ancestry, place of origin, sex, marital status and sexual orientation.

In this particular case, the decision is not even difficult. The baker refused to sell the couple a wedding cake of any shape, type, decorated or undecorated, solely based on their sexual orientation. He was wrong.

bailey bud wrote: Something........ appears the statute is the statute.........

Honestly - I think it was taken a bit too far

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but I'm not a judge - so I suppose my opinion doesn't really matter......

Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, it is not a discriminatory practice for a person to restrict admission to a place of public accommodation to individuals of one sex if such restriction has a bona fide relationship to the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of such place of public accommodation.

so - a gay bar can refuse admission to me, since I'm straight.

Not at all. The exclusion is directed towards such places as single sex bathrooms, single sex spas where there might be nudity, or where the services are targeted solely to one sex (gynecological, preganancy, prostate exams, etc.)

Further since this exception refers to individuals of one sex, a gay male is still a male, so as a straight male would be considered the same sex, albeit of differing orientations.

Here is a link to the decision in the case. It clarifies the facts, the issues and the law.
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/164887487/D ... 02013-0008

I'm with Dog 100% on this one.
Trying to twist yourself into a pretzel doesn't work. Wrong is wrong.