How did things get this bad? Polarization, dysfunction and the collapse of

15 Aug 2014 15:13 #21 by RenegadeCJ
If I were king, I would immediately change all future govt employees in the govt to a 401k system. A pension system in the govt employee realm is just a tax on all our future generations. Pay today for what you buy today.

Too bad future generations aren't here to see all the great things we are spending their $$ on!!

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16 Aug 2014 08:36 - 16 Aug 2014 08:36 #22 by Arlen
I read the article and do not agree with quite a bit of it.
First, it is written from a liberal slant. To hell with that slant!

What is now considered as the middle of the political spectrum was previously very left-of-center. I do believe that this has conservatives quite upset. "Moderate" is, in reality, far to the left.
The article mentions Tea Party as the influence on Republicans which would move the party to the right. This implies that Republicans would not be conservative except for the Tea Party. This is total nonsense.

Liberals should not try to analyze conservatives. They have absolutely no understanding.

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17 Aug 2014 10:41 #23 by Soulshiner
What has changed?

The introduction of the internet and the 24 hour news cycle.

The ability of posters to throw out a statement as fact and it going viral in order to tap into people's emotions and manipulate the dialog to fit their desires has muddied the waters and polarized people so that the middle is no man's land. Neither side of an issue can give an inch, lest they been seen as a traitor to their side. Once you demonize the other side, how can you agree with ANYTHING the other side believes in? That is the result of polarization. There are a few post in this thread that show this.

The 24 hour news cycle is a beast that must feed itself. The news channels now must fill 24 hours of programming. If there is no real news, the channels fill it with talking heads and stories that inflame their viewers and keep them watching. Instead of only reporting the news, they are offering opinions and takes on issues, many times cherry picking information to steer their viewer viewpoints in the direction they desire.

When you plant ice you're going to harvest wind. - Robert Hunter

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17 Aug 2014 10:57 - 17 Aug 2014 10:59 #24 by Arlen
Things have gotten this bad because liberals have no sense of integrity. As an example of this, consider the indictment of Rick Perry. Really?!!?

Travis County District Attorney Rosemary Lehmberg, was arrested and jailed for driving while drunk almost three times over the legal limit. She was abusing law officials. She had to be restrained. This was recorded on video.

Perry vowed to veto $7.5 million in state funds for the public-integrity agency run by Lehmberg, after she pleaded guilty to the April 2013 drunken-driving charge and didn’t resign.

FOR THIS PERRY WAS INDICTED.

This is why there is such a wide political gulf in the United States. LIBERALS HAVE NO MORAL COMPASS OR CONSCIENCE. They will do anything to destroy conservatives and win. Right and wrong has no meaning to a liberal.

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17 Aug 2014 19:59 #25 by Rick

Arlen wrote: Things have gotten this bad because liberals have no sense of integrity. As an example of this, consider the indictment of Rick Perry. Really?!!?

Travis County District Attorney Rosemary Lehmberg, was arrested and jailed for driving while drunk almost three times over the legal limit. She was abusing law officials. She had to be restrained. This was recorded on video.
.

Well she does work for the government so the bar of personal responsibility is about as low as Pelosi's IQ score. So a governor can't even clean up the swamp full of worthless $hitbags without being attacked. Maybe this old bag can get a job working in the public school system since you have to rape or kill someone to get fired.

“We can’t afford four more years of this”

Tim Walz

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18 Aug 2014 11:03 #26 by ScienceChic

RenegadeCJ wrote: I think 2 things would fix a lot in DC.

1) Term limits
2) Get rid of congressional offices in DC. Make them stay at home, and only visit there for a couple weeks a year. Everything else could be done over the internet. Lobbyists would have a lot harder time influencing when they have to travel to 50 states to do it.

Interesting. I agree with the first myself, but your second option is exactly what this article said is the current problem - our representatives spend much less time living and working in DC than they used to and it's the loss of the personal relationships with each other (also reflected in our communities) that has contributed to the breakdown in communication and effectiveness of our government.

Given the prevalence of email/video conferencing/social media connections, do you really think that it would reduce lobbyists' influence, or just filter out those who are less rich? Also, please note that this article addressed lobbyists' influence compared to the past. What did you make of their observations?

Soulshiner, that is certainly one problem indirectly mentioned in the article. Not only is the media a beast which must feed itself, but it's become polarized itself and politicians can say the most outlandish things on those networks that favor them and get away with it. It does nothing to foster meaningful dialog, and there is a whole lot of misinformation that gets virally spread. Not to mention the news organizations have been cutting back on investigative journalism funding and support. You don't see those in-depth, well-researched analyses of situations, rather mainly a diet of melodrama and emotional fluff.

Is it possible to regulate the news at this point to only be available for a certain time of the day based on each time zone? How else does that system get fixed?

Here's the next bit of brain candy I'd like to toss out there from the article, and it has to do with how we interact with each other:

In a townshipped community, there were disagreements among those who lived near one another, ate in adjoining booths, drank on adjacent stools, and played in the same softball tournaments. Everyone on Spring Street might have voted for Adlai Stevenson in 1952, but they could not avoid Eisenhower voters in the course of a typical day-to-day routine.

Today, if you don’t know your neighbors—if you’ve transferred social capital away from the middle rings—your political frame of reference is limited both to the people you love most and the legions who, through outer-ring networks, share your point of view.

Partisans were once more inclined to disagree in an agreeable way. And in turn, they were less inclined to vilify representatives in Washington in instances where they disagreed, even if they supported the opposition.

The change, then, isn’t that Americans today are necessarily more polarized, or are less inclined in the routines of their everyday lives to believe in compromise. It’s that those on the other side of any given issue now are not only wrong, they’re almost alien. You can’t say, “that’s a crazy position to take, but I understand why Jack thinks that” if you don’t know Jack, or don’t know what Jack’s take is. Without the firsthand exposure gained from passing conversations, it’s much easier to castigate the other side—whether your position has hardened or not.

Senators haven’t become more inclined to filibuster today because they’re less concerned about the public interest. Their intransigence reflects the public’s new appetite.

Eli Pariser put it well: “Ultimately, democracy works only if we citizens are capable of thinking beyond our narrow self-interest. But to do so, we need a shared view of the world we cohabit. We need to come into contact with other people’s lives and needs and desires.”

That's why I bought this business, because I think it's of utmost importance that we not lose that dialog across differing viewpoints and ideologies; I believe it's fundamental to a healthy, working democracy. We cannot isolate ourselves among those with whom we mostly agree. And while it's more uncomfortable, and at times contentious, it's better for us all than just hitting "Like" on our friends Facebook posts all the time.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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18 Aug 2014 12:09 #27 by FredHayek
Bipartisan agreements to put us deeper and deeper into debt have us to the point that is will be nearly impossible to pay back. The filibuster is a handy tool, as is Reid's power that prevents hundreds of passed bills in the House to be tabled in the Senate.

Lobbyists? President Obama who once promised to break the power of them, is now hiring them.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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18 Aug 2014 18:14 - 18 Aug 2014 18:26 #28 by LOL

Soulshiner wrote: The 24 hour news cycle is a beast that must feed itself. The news channels now must fill 24 hours of programming. If there is no real news, the channels fill it with talking heads and stories that inflame their viewers and keep them watching. Instead of only reporting the news, they are offering opinions and takes on issues, many times cherry picking information to steer their viewer viewpoints in the direction they desire.


Exactly right!

ScienceChic wrote:
Is it possible to regulate the news at this point to only be available for a certain time of the day based on each time zone? How else does that system get fixed?


No, it is possible to turn that crap off though. They get the viewer numbers and will figure it out.

LOL turned off Main Street TV news many moons ago. Fk-em


As for term limits, well ya! Been saying this for decades but not much interest I guess. Seems pretty frickin Obvious to me.

Enjoy!

If you want to be, press one. If you want not to be, press 2

Republicans are red, democrats are blue, neither of them, gives a flip about you.

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19 Aug 2014 07:46 #29 by RenegadeCJ

ScienceChic wrote: Interesting. I agree with the first myself, but your second option is exactly what this article said is the current problem - our representatives spend much less time living and working in DC than they used to and it's the loss of the personal relationships with each other (also reflected in our communities) that has contributed to the breakdown in communication and effectiveness of our government.

Given the prevalence of email/video conferencing/social media connections, do you really think that it would reduce lobbyists' influence, or just filter out those who are less rich? Also, please note that this article addressed lobbyists' influence compared to the past. What did you make of their observations?


I guess #1 would cover #2, but from what I see when I have visited our Washington politicians, is that most of them can't stand to be around we "common folk". I don't agree that they spend too much time at home. If they had offices here, requiring them to be open to the public, it would be hard for them to schmooze with the lobbyists. I really think it would be a lot harder to be influenced by outsiders.

They have plenty of relationships with each other. They need to get back to relationships with us. But again, term limits would fix that problem. Their observations seemed ok regarding lobbyists. Of course there are more now, but lobbying in itself isn't wrong, just how it is done without the knowledge of those they are supposed to represent.

Regarding the rest of the article, it is hard to get people to find a center, when the center has moved so far left. To me, the budget issue is huge. Asking for compromise on "only" spending 500 billion of the future generation's $$ is not acceptable. The current politicians seem fine spending a trillion per year more than they take in. That is unacceptable, as is 1/2 of that. I can't compromise on this because it isn't my $$....it is my kids $$, and their kids $$.

Too bad future generations aren't here to see all the great things we are spending their $$ on!!

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19 Aug 2014 08:08 #30 by FredHayek
I love the people who think term limits will solve anything. We currently have term limits, don't like your congressman? You can primary him, the TEA Party does that all the time. So even in "safe" districts, Republican politicians are still running scared. If they don't listen to their voters, they will find someone who does. And if the Pol survives the primary, he can still lose the election.

24 Hour news cycle as a bad thing? How about it exposing the scumbags in office? Like the Texas politician recently shown drunk driving? Or would you prefer the old days where the local press agreed to look the other way?

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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