How to Make a Safe Arrest

Rick wrote: Just curious, now that the police (especially white) are going to be much more scrutinized, what is the best was to arrest a very large and strong man who does not want to cooperate? What methods can be used that would ensure with 100% certainty that no harm would come to the resisting suspect? The methods would need to be effective for all situations whether the suspect is trying to run, or is attacking, or is just using his body to fend off the cop(s). I'm drawing a blank.

I can't think of anything with 100% certainty that could not harm a suspect. And we now know a choke hold does not have 100% certainty either (should of already known that).

My point was once he's on the ground he's pretty much subdued with all those cops around him. He said many time "I can breathe" so why not let him breathe? You've got him in a choke hold, duh!

Other suggestions... Maybe get a couple of officers his size to make the arrest. How about using one of those hand held stunners (though it could harm a person who's not in good health but it's got to be safer than a choke hold I'd think)?

Or do what some do when the pet misbehaves, spray water on him until he leaves.

The other point is the crime did not justify the means, IMO. Selling cigarettes illegally is illegal because it deprives the government of its cigarette tax. Hopefully the IRS won't do that to you when you fail your audit. I assume the guy was at least first given a notice to appear before they took such action.

Nobody that matters wrote:

Rick wrote: Just curious, now that the police (especially white) are going to be much more scrutinized, what is the best was to arrest a very large and strong man who does not want to cooperate? What methods can be used that would ensure with 100% certainty that no harm would come to the resisting suspect? The methods would need to be effective for all situations whether the suspect is trying to run, or is attacking, or is just using his body to fend off the cop(s). I'm drawing a blank.

I was taught to respect the authority of the law even if you don't respect the individual currently trying to enforce it. If a cop tells me to put my hands behind my back, I'm going to comply, and have faith that the system will work. If I don't, we've become nothing but animals.

I was pulled over in Morrison for speeding. My dog yipped in the back seat just before the 25MPH sign and I hit the brakes a little late. I finally pulled over into the gas station, and without thinking, I got out to grab some paper towels to clean up the mess before it soaked in too far. The officer pulled out his gun, and told me to get back in the vehicle.

You know what I did? I got back in the vehicle and placed my hands on the steering wheel. When he approached my window, I apologized and told him I just wanted to clean up the barf. He said he'd appreciate it if he could get my ID, registration and insurance first, then I could clean it while he was in his car. He wrote me up for 9mph over (15 mph minimum my foot).

Do I respect the officer? Nope. Do I respect Morrison PD? Nope. Do I respect the laws that give them authority to do what they do within their town limits? Yep. Am I gonna get shot over dog barf? No flippin way. My kids in the back seat were watching and listening - it was a great learning moment for them. Initial contact can be stressful, but showing respect will diffuse any disagreement.

Respect shown to officers is usually reciprocated by the officers. If he would have cuffed me, I would have kept quiet, understanding that he's in a stressful situation and wants to go home after his shift. When he calmed down, I'd be able to discuss it with him.

If more people would learn that simple attitude, the incidents of death by arrest would drop drastically.

The guy in New York - his family claims he had no cigarettes on him, or in his car. If he stopped and was honest with the cops instead of going off like a 300lb bottle rocket, it could have been a peaceful encounter.

In Ferguson, if the kid had not attacked a cop, he'd still be stealing cigars.

The problem didn't start with the cops, the problem is the cop's increased wariness due to an increasing lack of respect from citizens. I believe that lack of respect for authority goes hand in hand with the entitlement attitude causing havoc with our economy.

Body cameras. Recording equipment that details every interaction. Multiple cell phone recordings - all are evidence that either the cop went too far or the citizen brought the pain on themselves.

It's kind of flippant to talk about it this way when lives are at stake, but cops need an instant replay, and citizens need to be able to throw a challenge flag after the play to get it reviewed.

I agree 100%, to me it's just common sense to be compliant with the cops, even if you know you've done nothing. And as for cameras, I think those will be mandatory soon since there is so much distrust. But I don't think that will be the end of it... people will say that it only gives the officer's point of view and not the criminal's/"victim's". Maybe the cops could deploy a drone that hovers overhead and captures the event from a neutral perspective

There is NO "safe" arrest, there IS, however, a VARIETY of techniques available to the police
and those options appear NOT be utilized. The PREFERRED "fall back position" is blatant "bad ass"
bias....(meaning I'm going to LEGALLY kick your ass and there is NOTHING you can do about it.)

It is OBVIOUS now, that RETRAINING of police across the nation is on the agenda...per CNN

pineinthegrass wrote:

Rick wrote: Just curious, now that the police (especially white) are going to be much more scrutinized, what is the best was to arrest a very large and strong man who does not want to cooperate? What methods can be used that would ensure with 100% certainty that no harm would come to the resisting suspect? The methods would need to be effective for all situations whether the suspect is trying to run, or is attacking, or is just using his body to fend off the cop(s). I'm drawing a blank.

I can't think of anything with 100% certainty that could not harm a suspect. And we now know a choke hold does not have 100% certainty either (should of already known that).

.

This is the point I'm trying to make... if a cop doesn't have a way to subdue a suspect with 100% safety, isn't it likely that cops will let more criminals go or not confront a huge guy in the first place? Who wants to gamble that your life might be destroyed from a wrongful death or injury lawsuit?

homeagain wrote: There is NO "safe" arrest, there IS, however, a VARIETY of techniques available to the police
and those options appear NOT be utilized. The PREFERRED "fall back position" is blatant "bad ass"
bias....(meaning I'm going to LEGALLY kick your ass and there is NOTHING you can do about it.)

It is OBVIOUS now, that RETRAINING of police across the nation is on the agenda...per CNN

Let's qualify that one just a bit further, there is no safe arrest of one determined not to be arrested for either the arrestor or the arrestee.

I was involved in an automobile accident a few years back when I was headed to a memorial Mass for my grandmother. I had just returned from a hunting trip and still had my rifle and other assorted items in the back of the Blazer when the accident occurred. My vehicle had to be towed away and I explained to the officer that I had my hunting gear, including my rifle, in the cargo area and would like to retrieve it. He asked me if the rifle was loaded, and was told by me that it wasn't and that it was in a case. The officer, a Wheat Ridge cop, asked me to remove the rifle from the case and open the bolt to show him that it wasn't loaded. And so, being a good citizen, I complied. I retrieved the case, opened it, removed the rifle, opened the bolt and turned to show the cop that it wasn't loaded . . . only to find myself staring down the business end of his duty weapon, which he had drawn and aimed at me while I did as he requested. How I reacted from that point forward was the difference between walking away and being shot by that officer and that is almost universally true regardless of the situation. Don't give the officers an excuse to hurt you and you aren't going to be hurt.

Your day in court comes later, the only thing that resisting the process, once it starts to unfold, is going to get you is hurt. That's "the talk" my Pa had with me when I was a young lad and it's just as true today as it was 40 years or so ago.

ScienceChic wrote: Absolutes really only apply in temperature and death.

The liberal mind struggles greatly with objective verities. Their world is grey, so a liberal can rationalize almost anything based on their current circumstance or perception. It reminds me of my liberal friend's view of the unborn; abortion is fine, however, anyone who kills a pregnant woman should be charged with two counts of murder.