Crooked Hillary Colluded with the DNC and Russia to win the presidency

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Rick created the topic: Crooked Hillary Colluded with the DNC and Russia to win the presidency 03 Nov 2017 07:50 #1

Does it bother any of you that just a couple months after announcing her candidacy Hillary secretly took over the DNC in order to insure Bernie had no chance? Doesn't that go against everything you stand for in what's supposed to an honest and open process?

And as for her claim that paying the Kremlin for bullsh$t on Trump was just "opposition research", doesn't that strike you as extremely slimy and worthy of being called collusion? What if Trump paid them to get made up dirt on her, wouldn't you be screaming from the rooftops?

One thing you can't deny... if there was ever a possibility of the two party system being shattered, it's definitely now and it's definitely due to Trump[ beating Hillary. Had Hillary won, there's now way in Hell Donna Brazille would have had the balls to write this book exposing the scam in the DNC... but now she sees an opportunity to make money and try to redeem herself (*after she colluded with Hillary by giving her CNN debate questions). It's all a big slimy mess that's finally being exposed, and I love it!

So we have the Sanders side against the Dem establishment and the Trump side against the GOP establishment. I count 4... isn't this a great thing to see both sides imploding and breaking apart? It had to happen if we really want a fair and just system that gives more people a voice and you really can't deny Trump is the key to it all. Had Hillary won, OR, if an establishment GOP guy/gal had won, we would still be securely locked into a two party system. Am I wrong?

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Rick replied the topic: Crooked Hillary Colluded with the DNC and Russia to win the presidency 03 Nov 2017 19:09 #2

Just tell me whether or not this is or is not the biggest political scandal in our lifetimes, I dare you to explain Hillary's purchase of the nomination as being anything but corrupt and un-American. I know this topic isn't about Trump and it's going to be hard to switch gears, but... show me you're true colors and I'll continue to show you mine.

peace

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hillfarmer replied the topic: Crooked Hillary Colluded with the DNC and Russia to win the presidency 04 Nov 2017 10:38 #3

Sorry. Many of us are unable to hear a dog whistle at that frequency.

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ScienceChic replied the topic: Crooked Hillary Colluded with the DNC and Russia to win the presidency 04 Nov 2017 11:28 #4

Rick wrote: Does it bother any of you that just a couple months after announcing her candidacy Hillary secretly took over the DNC in order to insure Bernie had no chance? Doesn't that go against everything you stand for in what's supposed to an honest and open process?

There's never been any doubt that our political processes have been subverted by those who have too much power and influence, but I'd have to say that gerrymandering, the dark money that has infiltrated politics with Citizens United, foreign influence on our election through social media, and election vote hacking are far worse scandals undermining our democracy. And now Trump and the Republicans want to allow churches to be able to endorse candidates and make donations to campaigns, but still treat them as exempt nonprofits. WTH?

As for Bernie, he isn't a Democrat and he never should've had access to the DNC's resources. I've also seen the arguments that Hillary paid off the debt that the DNC had so what's the problem? Well, I think it's great that she did but absolutely wrong if she subverted to process. Every candidate should have an equal chance at becoming the nominee; that's one of the reasons that Unaffiliated voters have pushed to be allowed to be involved in the process of choosing said nominees - there's too much "behind closed doors" BS going on.

Rick wrote: And as for her claim that paying the Kremlin for bullsh$t on Trump was just "opposition research", doesn't that strike you as extremely slimy and worthy of being called collusion? What if Trump paid them to get made up dirt on her, wouldn't you be screaming from the rooftops?

She didn't pay the Kremlin or conspire with Russian agents, she paid an independent consultant who had been initially hired by Republican candidates. There's a big difference between paying an independent consultant for verified information, and actively working with a foreign government to throw the election your way. That's vetting/digging up dirt vs treason in my book.

hillfarmer wrote: Sorry. Many of us are unable to hear a dog whistle at that frequency.

I appreciate you posting hillfarmer, but this isn't cool here. The Courthouse is for debating the content of the information posted, not the poster. The latter is what our Ring Forum is for. You are more than welcome to post either way, all we ask is that you do it in its appropriate place. I, for one, would love to get back to having in-depth civil conversations, our leaders and representatives need to be shown how it should be done.


The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh

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ScienceChic replied the topic: Crooked Hillary Colluded with the DNC and Russia to win the presidency 04 Nov 2017 12:39 #5

Rick wrote: One thing you can't deny... if there was ever a possibility of the two party system being shattered, it's definitely now and it's definitely due to Trump[ beating Hillary. Had Hillary won, there's now way in Hell Donna Brazille would have had the balls to write this book exposing the scam in the DNC... but now she sees an opportunity to make money and try to redeem herself (*after she colluded with Hillary by giving her CNN debate questions). It's all a big slimy mess that's finally being exposed, and I love it!

Parties go through schisms because power corrupts, it's all a cycle, and this one has been a long time coming. I can't find it now but not long ago I read a fascinating article on Dwight Eisenhower and how he tried to force into office candidates who were sympathetic to his policies (much as Trump is trying to do attacking those who speak up against him, and promoting others) and ending up being the catalyst for the severing of the Dixie Democrats and realignment of the Democratic and Republican Parties around entirely different platforms and supporter bases. It was a cautionary tale of one branch trying to meddle in another to get their way. If I can find it, I'll add it here.

A good quote by the other Roosevelt:
Political parties exist to secure responsible government and to execute the will of the people. From these great tasks both of the old parties have turned aside. Instead of instruments to promote the general welfare they have become the tools of corrupt interests, which use them impartially to serve their selfish purposes. Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics, is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.
~Theodore Roosevelt, speech, Aug. 1912

Regarding Brazille, isn't it a tad suspect that she's selling a book to profit off this scandal? I'd take that info she's pushing with a huge grain of salt.

Rick wrote: So we have the Sanders side against the Dem establishment and the Trump side against the GOP establishment. I count 4... isn't this a great thing to see both sides imploding and breaking apart? It had to happen if we really want a fair and just system that gives more people a voice and you really can't deny Trump is the key to it all. Had Hillary won, OR, if an establishment GOP guy/gal had won, we would still be securely locked into a two party system. Am I wrong?

Sanders is an Independent and as evidenced by the last election, he'd be better off forming a separate party rather than trying to fit his views into the Dems (and I've seen calls to form a "People's Party" for him), and the Dems would be better off trying to find a coherent message and doing something constructive. The Republicans already had split with the Tea Party forming, it would be really awesome if they'd stop catering to the extremists and let them congregate there while they got back to being moderate and espousing true conservatism. Stop with the social activism and stick with fiscal issues; that's where their strength is.

I agree completely that Trump being elected was the lynch pin that got pulled and had Hillary been sworn in, we'd still be at status quo; it's a shame that it took someone so horribly bad at governing to motivate people. It's been wonderful to see the country as a whole getting more active, with huge demonstrations by citizens, people making tons of calls and writing letters to their representatives, stepping up to run and fill seats. We need new blood, we need more people actively engaged in our political processes. It would be nice if we didn't have to implement term limits because we had regular turnover - that's what keeps organizations healthy.

I used to spout that we didn't need "career politicians" in office as they were most likely to be corrupt and screwing things up; I admit now that that view is too extreme. We need experience and new blood both for healthy balance - Trump's group of neophytes is wrecking our government efficacy and our standing/respect in the world. Above all, we need the partisan rhetoric and extreme left/right movement to end. Move back to the middle ground where moderates can thrive and compromise isn't a dirty word. Where politicians across the aisle work together for the better of the country, not spending their days fundraising to survive the next election and serving those special interests and rich backers who dictate their actions.

This was written over 60 years ago, but it applies today.
"Declaration of Conscience" by Senator Margaret Chase Smith
delivered 1 June 1950, Washington, D.C.

I'll wrap it up with a few more favorite quotes:
"We can't buy the line that government is our enemy and the market is our friend ... Government is us. Government is our institutions. Government is how we make social and public choices working together to forge common ground ... We've got to retrieve our citizenship." ~Benjamin Barber

The first requisite of a good citizen in this Republic of ours is that he shall be able and willing to pull his weight; that he shall not be a mere passenger, but shall do his share in the work that each generation of us finds ready to hand; and, furthermore, that in doing his work he shall show, not only the capacity for sturdy self-help, but also self-respecting regard for the rights of others.
~Theodore Roosevelt, speech in New York, Nov. 11, 1902

The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.


The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

Your scars exist, but it’s your courage that defines you. ~Nalini Singh

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Rick replied the topic: Crooked Hillary Colluded with the DNC and Russia to win the presidency 05 Nov 2017 09:54 #6

ScienceChic wrote: Parties go through schisms because power corrupts, it's all a cycle, and this one has been a long time coming. I can't find it now but not long ago I read a fascinating article on Dwight Eisenhower and how he tried to force into office candidates who were sympathetic to his policies (much as Trump is trying to do attacking those who speak up against him, and promoting others) and ending up being the catalyst for the severing of the Dixie Democrats and realignment of the Democratic and Republican Parties around entirely different platforms and supporter bases. It was a cautionary tale of one branch trying to meddle in another to get their way. If I can find it, I'll add it here.

Regarding Brazille, isn't it a tad suspect that she's selling a book to profit off this scandal? I'd take that info she's pushing with a huge grain of salt.

Sanders is an Independent and as evidenced by the last election, he'd be better off forming a separate party rather than trying to fit his views into the Dems (and I've seen calls to form a "People's Party" for him), and the Dems would be better off trying to find a coherent message and doing something constructive. The Republicans already had split with the Tea Party forming, it would be really awesome if they'd stop catering to the extremists and let them congregate there while they got back to being moderate and espousing true conservatism. Stop with the social activism and stick with fiscal issues; that's where their strength is.

I agree completely that Trump being elected was the lynch pin that got pulled and had Hillary been sworn in, we'd still be at status quo; it's a shame that it took someone so horribly bad at governing to motivate people. It's been wonderful to see the country as a whole getting more active, with huge demonstrations by citizens, people making tons of calls and writing letters to their representatives, stepping up to run and fill seats. We need new blood, we need more people actively engaged in our political processes. It would be nice if we didn't have to implement term limits because we had regular turnover - that's what keeps organizations healthy.

I used to spout that we didn't need "career politicians" in office as they were most likely to be corrupt and screwing things up; I admit now that that view is too extreme. We need experience and new blood both for healthy balance - Trump's group of neophytes is wrecking our government efficacy and our standing/respect in the world. Above all, we need the partisan rhetoric and extreme left/right movement to end. Move back to the middle ground where moderates can thrive and compromise isn't a dirty word. Where politicians across the aisle work together for the better of the country, not spending their days fundraising to survive the next election and serving those special interests and rich backers who dictate their actions.

.

First of all SC, thank you for having the "balls" to actually respond to the topic in a civil way, I've always appreciated that about you even though we disagree in most cases, you have always earned my respect.

"Sanders is an Independent and as evidenced by the last election, he'd be better off forming a separate party rather than trying to fit his views into the Dems (and I've seen calls to form a "People's Party" for him), and the Dems would be better off trying to find a coherent message and doing something constructive."

Is that really fair to say? Sanders has probably voted 99% with Democrats and as far as I could see, he ran on Democrat ideology right down the line. His supporters are Democrats and wanted him to be their president... they were far more enthusiastic that Clinton's supporters and they really felt that Sanders should have been given the same equal opportunity to gain the Dem nomination.

You of all people know how much traction a third party candidate gets, mainly from the media that treats third parties like an irrelevant sideshow. So why is it fair for Hillary to control the DNC just because she can afford to buy it? Does that really not seem horribly wrong to you?

I understand your hatred from Trump... most of which seems to stem from his poor use of the English language. On that we can agree, but when Obama eloquently read from his teleprompter, I felt the same way when I knew the words were lies and or harmful to this nation. That we will probably never agree on but one day we can look back and prove what real accomplishments he could really take credit for... I don't see any that made this country more prosperous and certainly not more united.

The point of my post was to talk about Hillary and what she has done. You may not think that paying the Kremlin to get bogus dirt on Trump is any sort of collusion, or the fact that she bought her way into controlling the DNC so that she could squash her fellow Dem candidates was collusion, but I think you'd have to ague what that word really means. Hillary Clinton has to be the worst candidate ever to run for the Democratic ticket and even when she cheated, she still couldn't beat the worst Republican candidate (especially since Trump's historical ideology was more aligned with Dems). Then there's the Uranium One deal where the Clintons received (I think $140 million) to their "foundation" at about the same time this deal was done. Oh yes, it was investigated... who investigated under who's administration and who would be hurt by negative findings? How did the US citizens benefit from this deal and if Trump had done it, what would you be saying today about a new investigation?

Hillary's bad deeds should be measured on their own... injecting Trump into the conversation is just a predictable diversion. I'd be happy to discuss Trumps actual misdeeds and or illegal actions should they happen in the next 3 years... his misplaced and ill advised words are not as big of a concern to me.

Have a great Sunday!

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