Crooked Hillary Colluded with the DNC and Russia to win the presidency

Rick wrote: Does it bother any of you that just a couple months after announcing her candidacy Hillary secretly took over the DNC in order to insure Bernie had no chance? Doesn't that go against everything you stand for in what's supposed to an honest and open process?

There's never been any doubt that our political processes have been subverted by those who have too much power and influence, but I'd have to say that gerrymandering, the dark money that has infiltrated politics with Citizens United, foreign influence on our election through social media, and election vote hacking are far worse scandals undermining our democracy. And now Trump and the Republicans want to allow churches to be able to endorse candidates and make donations to campaigns, but still treat them as exempt nonprofits. WTH?

As for Bernie, he isn't a Democrat and he never should've had access to the DNC's resources. I've also seen the arguments that Hillary paid off the debt that the DNC had so what's the problem? Well, I think it's great that she did but absolutely wrong if she subverted to process. Every candidate should have an equal chance at becoming the nominee; that's one of the reasons that Unaffiliated voters have pushed to be allowed to be involved in the process of choosing said nominees - there's too much "behind closed doors" BS going on.

Rick wrote: And as for her claim that paying the Kremlin for bullsh$t on Trump was just "opposition research", doesn't that strike you as extremely slimy and worthy of being called collusion? What if Trump paid them to get made up dirt on her, wouldn't you be screaming from the rooftops?

She didn't pay the Kremlin or conspire with Russian agents, she paid an independent consultant who had been initially hired by Republican candidates. There's a big difference between paying an independent consultant for verified information, and actively working with a foreign government to throw the election your way. That's vetting/digging up dirt vs treason in my book.

hillfarmer wrote: Sorry. Many of us are unable to hear a dog whistle at that frequency.

I appreciate you posting hillfarmer, but this isn't cool here. The Courthouse is for debating the content of the information posted, not the poster. The latter is what our Ring Forum is for. You are more than welcome to post either way, all we ask is that you do it in its appropriate place. I, for one, would love to get back to having in-depth civil conversations, our leaders and representatives need to be shown how it should be done.

Rick wrote: One thing you can't deny... if there was ever a possibility of the two party system being shattered, it's definitely now and it's definitely due to Trump[ beating Hillary. Had Hillary won, there's now way in Hell Donna Brazille would have had the balls to write this book exposing the scam in the DNC... but now she sees an opportunity to make money and try to redeem herself (*after she colluded with Hillary by giving her CNN debate questions). It's all a big slimy mess that's finally being exposed, and I love it!

Parties go through schisms because power corrupts, it's all a cycle, and this one has been a long time coming. I can't find it now but not long ago I read a fascinating article on Dwight Eisenhower and how he tried to force into office candidates who were sympathetic to his policies (much as Trump is trying to do attacking those who speak up against him, and promoting others) and ending up being the catalyst for the severing of the Dixie Democrats and realignment of the Democratic and Republican Parties around entirely different platforms and supporter bases. It was a cautionary tale of one branch trying to meddle in another to get their way. If I can find it, I'll add it here.

A good quote by the other Roosevelt:
Political parties exist to secure responsible government and to execute the will of the people. From these great tasks both of the old parties have turned aside. Instead of instruments to promote the general welfare they have become the tools of corrupt interests, which use them impartially to serve their selfish purposes. Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics, is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.
~Theodore Roosevelt, speech, Aug. 1912

Regarding Brazille, isn't it a tad suspect that she's selling a book to profit off this scandal? I'd take that info she's pushing with a huge grain of salt.

Rick wrote: So we have the Sanders side against the Dem establishment and the Trump side against the GOP establishment. I count 4... isn't this a great thing to see both sides imploding and breaking apart? It had to happen if we really want a fair and just system that gives more people a voice and you really can't deny Trump is the key to it all. Had Hillary won, OR, if an establishment GOP guy/gal had won, we would still be securely locked into a two party system. Am I wrong?

Sanders is an Independent and as evidenced by the last election, he'd be better off forming a separate party rather than trying to fit his views into the Dems (and I've seen calls to form a "People's Party" for him), and the Dems would be better off trying to find a coherent message and doing something constructive. The Republicans already had split with the Tea Party forming, it would be really awesome if they'd stop catering to the extremists and let them congregate there while they got back to being moderate and espousing true conservatism. Stop with the social activism and stick with fiscal issues; that's where their strength is.

I agree completely that Trump being elected was the lynch pin that got pulled and had Hillary been sworn in, we'd still be at status quo; it's a shame that it took someone so horribly bad at governing to motivate people. It's been wonderful to see the country as a whole getting more active, with huge demonstrations by citizens, people making tons of calls and writing letters to their representatives, stepping up to run and fill seats. We need new blood, we need more people actively engaged in our political processes. It would be nice if we didn't have to implement term limits because we had regular turnover - that's what keeps organizations healthy.

I used to spout that we didn't need "career politicians" in office as they were most likely to be corrupt and screwing things up; I admit now that that view is too extreme. We need experience and new blood both for healthy balance - Trump's group of neophytes is wrecking our government efficacy and our standing/respect in the world. Above all, we need the partisan rhetoric and extreme left/right movement to end. Move back to the middle ground where moderates can thrive and compromise isn't a dirty word. Where politicians across the aisle work together for the better of the country, not spending their days fundraising to survive the next election and serving those special interests and rich backers who dictate their actions.

This was written over 60 years ago, but it applies today.
"Declaration of Conscience" by Senator Margaret Chase Smith
delivered 1 June 1950, Washington, D.C.

I'll wrap it up with a few more favorite quotes:
"We can't buy the line that government is our enemy and the market is our friend ... Government is us. Government is our institutions. Government is how we make social and public choices working together to forge common ground ... We've got to retrieve our citizenship." ~Benjamin Barber

The first requisite of a good citizen in this Republic of ours is that he shall be able and willing to pull his weight; that he shall not be a mere passenger, but shall do his share in the work that each generation of us finds ready to hand; and, furthermore, that in doing his work he shall show, not only the capacity for sturdy self-help, but also self-respecting regard for the rights of others.
~Theodore Roosevelt, speech in New York, Nov. 11, 1902

The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.