"Obama's economy"

Well as I've said here, I think there are more people suffering than some like to think. There may be improvement in the economy for some, but not for others. Does that make it improvement? especially if the folks seeing improvement are already doing "ok." I get your point about welfare. We received food stamps for a short time when I was very young and the kids were little. I worked, but just didn't make enough... I think the system was more restrictive then. I made minimum wage, and we received maybe $50 per month in food stamps. We were allowed only 1 vehicle, you couldn't have money in savings, if you got a raise, they lowered your food stamps. The folks I see on that program now (many of them) I suspect either make way more than that and either don't disclose it or the income levels are different now. Having said that, there are two ways of thinking here, 1 is restricting how much you can earn and get food stamps incentivizes folks to NOT work... the 2nd is the world has changed and people feel entitled regardless and really don't want to work. I know folks that could seriously use a little help but make too much money to qualify for it, but really do not make enough to live on. I also see folks that would not lift a finger to get a job if their life depended on it, and eat better than I do with two jobs, and that makes me angry. The thing is, charity is a slippery slope, but so is the bootstrap approach. I have no idea what the correct answers are here, I'm not a politician, or a world leader. I'm a grandmother who sees her kids and a lot of other people suffering because many of the jobs that are out there pay barely enough feed their families and keep a roof over their heads - if it pays that much. I really am just saying I do not see improvement. I think each president has his own idea of how to fix things... congress likes to huff and puff and do nothing until someone makes them because they can never compromise on anything - as in each side thinks they are 100% correct and the other is 100% wrong - I am not saying Obama did a stellar job. There are many things I think did not work. I also think the economy was not good when Obama got elected. Bush had his own play on things, some worked and some didn't. Bill Clinton did a fairly good job of balancing the budget, but he had other policies that created other messes. and I think the jury is very much still out on Trump - he hasn't been in place long enough to see if what he is doing is going to work.

OK, I'll jump in on this.... first of all much of what you stated Rick is a lot of opinion and very little evidence. Which is fine, we all have opinions!

My main issue with not just trump but the current House GOP.

1. So they pass this tax cut. $1.5T of payback to rich donors. More of it went to stock buy backs and executive pay increases than to he actual workers that it was 'supposedly' going to help.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/15/china-tariffs-soybeans-could-cost-iowa-farmers-up-624-million/705121002/https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/tax-cut-windfall-has-gone-more-to-executives-than-to-workers-trimtabs.html

2. This trade war trump is starting with most of major trade partners. It's nothing but protectionism based on trumps lack of understanding of how trade really works. It is penalizing his own supports more than any other group. Soybeans tariffs alone could cost soybean farmers 2/3 of a billion alone. The cost of products Americans consume will go up from the steel/aluminum tariffs and how they will impact broad swaths of products the are made of these.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/15/china-tariffs-soybeans-could-cost-iowa-farmers-up-624-million/705121002/https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/15/china-tariffs-soybeans-could-cost-iowa-farmers-up-624-million/705121002/


3. Last night the House GOP passed a bill that will cut billions of dollars from Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. THIS is to pay for the $1.5T of tax cuts referenced above. THAT is a transfer of wealth, upward. That is the original sin.

The trade war actually scares me. I have been trying to do some extra reading on that as I really do not know what the percentages are between the US and the EU pre-current situation, but it seems like that has the potential to really trickle down hill - as in suddenly half of what we buy is way more expensive! If the EU is actually taxing us unfairly that's one thing, but from the idiots perspective (and yes I'll call myself that as I have not read far enough on the tariffs to have a handle on it) it seems like we have tariffs on things and they have tariffs on things, some high, some low and at a glance it seems like it fairly averages out, and I think there are many other facets to that issue though, such as, we are buying steel from other countries... well that's because the steel manufacturers in the US decided a LONG time ago it was way cheaper to buy it somewhere else, which means the price of our cars is cheaper among other things. now, the steel workers here were out of work when all those plants shut down and that is terrible and a very dark part of US history that still effects many areas. BUT, the end of that era was back in the 70s, so we quit buying steel from other countries or we get taxed high for it, because we're in a trade war with Canada and where ever else we buy it from - suddenly my Jeep costs half again as much? twice as much? I don't know what the math is there, but you know ultimately the consumer is going to see the effects. the alternative is we start producing our own steel again - are there guys from the old plants still able to do that kind of job? how long is it before they can train new ones? are there actually enough people in the area that are willing to do that kind of work? it's hard work! that job is not for everyone. That would be a big boom to Detroit and those areas for sure ... are those plants still operable?

I've used the auto industry as an example here only, but I guess my key question is this: has this been thought all the way through? Do we know what the possible ramifications of a trade war are? has someone been thinking long term on this? or is this another hey we should do this!!! kind of thing that ends up being a huge problem that way out lasts the current administration. I'm sort of starting to feel like the country is being run a lot like my friends and I at a party back in high school right before someone did something stupid and blew up an M-80 in their hand and lost a finger - as in "here hold my beer I wanna try somethin' "

I appreciate your well thought out post parkcobound and I understand the concerns about a trade war. My question will always be, is our trade between other countries fair or not? Why have tariffs at all? Seems to me like our past leaders screwed us big time as if they felt guilty about our economic success and standard of living. Now we are 21 trillion in debt and climbing and nobody wants to talk about the inevitable bill that will have to be paid.

IMO, the countries that have the best growth and growth potential will win any trade war. China is doing everything they can to be the dominant superpower and economy by 2040 and I think that should terrify everybody with a handful of brain cells. If nothing else, Trump has at least opened the eyes of the sheep who had no idea how unfair the trade has been for our country and maybe voters will start to care about our economic future a little bit.

Countries like Canada who are obviously our closest friends should sit down with us and explain why we should be paying such high tariffs on certain products like dairy... or should we just accept whatever deals have been in place for decades and not worry about unfair trade? I think it's long past due to at least talk about it and inform Americans as to how these trade deals are structured. I think we deserve that.

One of the reasons Trump won the Blue Wall/Rust Belt states is because of his protectionist promises. The Rust Belt has suffered more than your average American for decades, in fact, much of the growth of the Sun Belt, Colorado, and the West Coast is people fleeing these declining areas. I think the POTUS is playing a global game of Chicken with our major trading partners. True "Free Trade" agreements should only be one page long, instead they are thousands of pages and take years to negotiate. The President is hoping the other side blinks. I worry Europe will use any excuse to put up trade barriers to US goods and this will hurt American businesses and eventually workers. China and Asia? We are such a big market and those economies are so dependent on us, I could see them easily wave the white flag and negotiate down their pre-existing tariffs against US goods. But will it happen soon enough or will this sink the global economy? A very dangerous game. I wouldn't mind if the President Trump blinked first. Maybe free trade supporting Democrats and Republicans can give him something else to change his mind, like a good chunk of the Wall.

I do think the trade war is dangerous, certainly. And everything in govt seems to take way more pages than it should. I would like to see numbers on what we trade, what everyone else trades...guess I'm looking for some easy visual that probably doesn't exist. As for the wall, well, I have serious compassion for the folks that want in. Many have terrible circumstances where they are. Having said that, in a perfect world they would all come through immigration and do it legally. The wall itself is expensive ...no idea where that money us supposed to come from...and whose to say we don't spend billions on it and they just find another way in? That would be a real pickle

This is a little random and cross topics but I was reading articles this morning about the primaries yesterday, ex: Jared Polis spending 11 million of his own money to win the primary... there were many examples of off the chart spending and I can appreciate that these folks want to win. Let say for a moment that everyone that contributes to these campaigns instead donated those funds to a good viable non-political charity, and that all the money these politicians spend getting elected are required to spend only a capped amount - lets say 1 million. the rest of their campaigning has to be boots on the ground, walking around talking to people at Rotary or Lions Club or what ever, and instead of spending that $11 million on the campaign they put it into the local City budget to repair roads, or something like that. No I'm not high.... just felt like I wanted to say the current way is not working very well I don't think. It really seems like all of these politicians are just buying their election by how much money they throw at it. Several past presidents (including Obama) have promised campaign reform - I've said before all of them have good and bad history and this is certainly one I put in the bad column for Obama - campaign finance is worse than ever and totally out of control.

parkcobound wrote: .... No I'm not high.... just felt like I wanted to say the current way is not working very well ....

I do not think you are high. I think you are an idealist.

pie in the sky