Gotta Hand it to Him.

Brandon,
Yes, I do.

So, if subsidies turned Elon Musk from a millionaire to a billionaire, they must have transferred 999 million dollars into his personal bank accounts, da?

Brandon wrote: So, if subsidies turned Elon Musk from a millionaire to a billionaire, they must have transferred 999 million dollars into his personal bank accounts, da?

If he never got any help from taxpayers, do you think he would be a billionaire today? Common sense tells me his company would not be above water today.

Brandon,
Obtuse, M/W def: Slow to understand, witless, simpleminded, etc.
Perhaps the Obama administration gave Musk the money in cash, as they did with the Iranians and therefore it is not in his personal bank account. (Sarcasm)
You do realize that "da" in Russian means "I agree with what you say, you are right".

From Businessinsider.com #/21/2018 www.businessinsider.com/tesla-elon-musk-net-worth-2017-10
"Four years later, in 1999, they sold Zip2 for $307 million, earning Musk $22 million. He invested more than half of his earnings to cofound X.com, an online banking service. The company quickly merged with its rival and became PayPal with Musk as the majority shareholder. In 2002, eBay bought PayPal and Musk walked away with $180 million."
"In late 2008, Musk divorced his first wife and it took a toll on his finances. A year later, Musk said he "ran out of cash" and had been living off loans from friends while trying to keep his companies afloat. But when Tesla debuted on the stock market in 2010, Musk's fortune sky rocketed. By 2012, he appeared on Forbes' richest list for the first time with a net worth of $2 billion."
Musk made his money parlaying solar energy/electric cars, a government favorite at the time. Fast forward to August, 2018, Musk threatens to take Tesla private. Using money from whom?
SC you mentioned gas guzzling behemoths, are you referring to Ford, GMC, Toyota, Dodge trucks which are the life blood of workers here in the mountains? I don't recall getting a subsidy for my Toyota Tundra but my Denver friend got in excess of $6000, a tax credit from the IRS for the purchase of a Tesla. A tax credit is real money, once your tax liability is determined then subtract your tax credit. The state of Colorado also gave him a tax credit of $5000.
As I stated earlier, Gotta Hand it to Him, he knows how to work the government.
I previously said that the government should not be involved in picking winners, though in view of his benefits, Mr. Musk would not agree.
In that he is a citizen of the USA, Canada, and South Africa he has many venues open to him.
Please understand that I don't denigrate him (not a racial slur, rather a proper English word)
I am in awe of his ability to take advantage of the situation with which he is presented.

ramage wrote: Brandon,
Obtuse, M/W def: Slow to understand, witless, simpleminded, etc.
Perhaps the Obama administration gave Musk the money in cash, as they did with the Iranians and therefore it is not in his personal bank account. (Sarcasm)
You do realize that "da" in Russian means "I agree with what you say, you are right".

If you're ducking the 999 million question now, perhaps you can translate "no lo contendere" into russian for me.

ScienceChic wrote: Didn't he make most of his money from building and selling PayPal? And the stock market value of his companies, not the actual selling of the vehicles?

Does anyone care to weigh in on the question of the U.S. government doing any kind of subsidies and whether we should be supporting any American business?

I would put forth the argument that traditional car manufacturers and oil & gas companies have benefited far more due to the the price of gasoline being so heavily subsidized allowing people to purchase heavy, gas-guzzling behemoths.

Yes, he made a lot on Paypal, but that's not the gift that keeps on giving. If you think like Brandon, then 4.9 Billion in government subsidies isn't what helps to make you rich.

Tesla Motors Inc., SolarCity Corp. and Space Exploration Technologies Corp., known as SpaceX, together have benefited from an estimated $4.9 billion in government support, according to data compiled by The Times. The figure underscores a common theme running through his emerging empire: a public-private financing model underpinning long-shot start-ups.

"He definitely goes where there is government money," said Dan Dolev, an analyst at Jefferies Equity Research. "That's a great strategy, but the government will cut you off one day."

The figure compiled by The Times comprises a variety of government incentives, including grants, tax breaks, factory construction, discounted loans and environmental credits that Tesla can sell. It also includes tax credits and rebates to buyers of solar panels and electric cars.

A looming question is whether the companies are moving toward self-sufficiency — as Dolev believes — and whether they can slash development costs before the public largesse ends.

Tesla and SolarCity continue to report net losses after a decade in business, but the stocks of both companies have soared on their potential; Musk's stake in the firms alone is worth about $10 billion. (SpaceX, a private company, does not publicly report financial performance.)

Musk and his companies' investors enjoy most of the financial upside of the government support, while taxpayers shoulder the cost.

The payoff for the public would come in the form of major pollution reductions, but only if solar panels and electric cars break through as viable mass-market products. For now, both remain niche products for mostly well-heeled customers.

www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-s...-20150531-story.html

As far as your claim the oil and gas gets subsidies, I think you probably have a different definition of what an actual subsidy is. A subsidy is NOT a business expense that is allowed to be written off, no matter how many times someone wants to claim that it is. I won't post the whole article but it's a pretty easy read if you want to dispute it.

Now let’s analyze what the oil & gas sector pays in taxes. In 2012 the top two corporations paying federal taxes in the US were ExxonMobil and Chevron CVX -0.41% paying a combined total of $45.2 billion. On average, the industry pays a 45% tax rate when all state, federal, and foreign taxes are totaled up. By comparison the Healthcare Industry pays a total rate of 35% and the Pharmaceuticals pay an estimated rate of 21%. Based upon these numbers it’s hard to believe which business sector is criticized the most for “subsidies”.

www.forbes.com/sites/kpmg/2018/07/19/the...-world/#57abda071105

And I know you don't like the fact that gasoline is still affordable, but the alternative is more suffering and a lowered standard of living.

I'm all for subsidies if the companies getting them are making those involuntary taxpayer investments pay off for the average taxpayer, not just for the wealthy would can afford to play with new toys and less efficient technology.

Let's make a list of things that the average person uses every day that started out as being too expensive for most people:
1. Internal combustion engine automobiles
2. Electronic computers
3. Refrigerators
4. ...(please join in the fun!)

Brandon,
I applaud your support of private enterprise.
1. Internal combustion engine automobiles - Henry Ford mass produced Fords (ModelA and Model T) that were affordable to the public without government subsidies.
2. Electronic computers - Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are considered the prime movers in bringing the computer to the average person - without government subsidies.
3. Refrigerators - the domestic model attributed to Fred Wolf (1913) was not subsidized by the government.

Now back to the thread and away from your diversion. Nolo Contendere = "не желаю оспаривать". What is the $999 million dollar question? I am old and slow please spell it out for me.