Trump Era Mountain Community Social Media

ScienceChic wrote: I've been thinking on this topic since you posted it GeorgeM (thank you for that, I appreciate having something the ponder more in-depth!), and I keep circling back to two thoughts possibly due to much of my bias of thinking about the bigger picture and causes of unrest in order to find solutions.

First, as I've mentioned here before in terms of our moderating, what you allow is what will continue. The converse for that applies as well - if you mostly visit sites and expose yourself to that which is not controlled, pushes only a one-sided agenda, or fits only your worldview to provide comfort and reinforcement, then you are affecting your psyche in profound ways (and you may not even realize it). It's been proven that social media affects our personality, our moods, and our mental health; is it any wonder that by participating online in places that don't have sufficient standards for civility that our society has become more uncivilized?

I moved to Conifer in 2002 and political forums were always contentious even back then. I was attacked by some after my very first post on Pinecam and called a Big Pharma shill for simply refuting misinformation on vaccines with evidence from journals and the CDC. I'd never once in my life worked for a pharmaceutical company and none of the other posters had a single clue who I was or what I did, some of them just made assumptions because they disagreed with my information and attacked. However, you could at least have debates back and forth between most people with disparate beliefs. Then came the rise of social media.

Facebook, in particular, has allowed people to insulate themselves by getting overloaded with information from friends (mostly, not all, like-minded people). With how much the platform has restricted and artificially decided the trickle of information it shows each user (even of what they themselves have told FB they liked), coupled with it not policing the quality or veracity of content and the explosion of groups with nefarious intentions, it's caused a profound shift toward a feedback loop of disinformation (propaganda) and narrow-mindedness if people only get their news from there, and had dubious influence on our mental health.

(For some thoughtful chewing on information quality, I highly recommend Jim Wright's essay Critical Path on Stonekettle Station.)

Members with whom I used to have great debates, where we actually listened to one another, debunked each other's biases and preconceived notions, sometimes actually learned from one another, and all made calls for civility from others, now can barely restrain themselves from sneering and insulting. I see people who used to be positive, friendly, and engaging now in spaces where they snarl, get cheers from fellow tribesmen, refuse to accept anything which disagrees with their entrenched worldview, and no longer participate in even more light-hearted, fun banter.

It's been disheartening to say the least, and I think our polarization has led to this. Some of that is external, from enemies who seek to divide us, who use emotional propaganda to ramp up our fear and hatred of our fellow Americans so we don't see the true threats; but I think it's more than that...

Second, whether we admit it outwardly or not, I believe that individually every one of us recognizes at least on a subconscious, instinctual level that we are building toward seriously awful changes due to the effect of our over-population, misuse of natural resources, and worldwide unsustainable lifestyles. Changes in climate historically have caused entire previous societies (and species) to become extinct or scattered so much as to lose their heritage to the mists of time. With this pending fight or flight survival instinct triggered, I think that's partly why we have seen over the decades the growing divide between the haves and have-nots (i.e. 1%ers). The more wealth, land, and power you acquire, the more likely you are to weather the coming upheaval in our economy and way of life.

In times of great change, local and regional tribes form for mutual protection and benefit, amassing that which will aid in survival, and this process includes weeding out those you feel are "undesirable" who won't improve the fitness of the group. Whether merit-based on actual survival or simply a matter of being different (and different is bad), I think that's what we're seeing a lot of. We are tied to this earth through the very elements that make up our bodies, we see the increase in devastating fires, heat waves, hurricanes, and drought, and our primitive minds know we're in for a not-so-fun ride.

That's at least my going theory. If you have a better one, I'd love to hear it!

Hmm, it might be time to pull this off the shelf... Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies

I am sad to see the bolded,it is a factor I was unaware of,having been on the western slope and
NOT on Facebook......the essence of "reaching out and engaging" is a great void. I have read the research and watched a doc on how soc media has altered the way we treat one another.
There will come a time when face to face will be the ONLY manner available (think cyberattack
on a grand scale)......because we (the nation) are incredible vulnerable now. We have NOT maintained cyber security and are woefully UNprepared to fight an attack. from other countries.
The attacks on large companies and corporations are just "feelers".....reaching out to test the
systems that are in place (OR NOT)jmo

GeorgeM wrote: Homeagain, I don’t think self-sufficiency and individualism are exclusive to folks who prefer wide-open spaces to urban closeness. The ‘frontiersman’ mindset follows what I believe to be an innate characteristic of human beings to both tame nature and live amidst it. The reliance on self-sufficiency in a natural setting is of course necessarily required in order to survive. On the other hand, I believe the urbanite who values self-sufficiency and individualism has a harder row to hoe. Yes, s/he isn’t chopping wood, digging wells, and killing game. S/he is necessarily striving to break out of the conditioned sameness that urban communities foster. Indeed, the urban kid who abjures the gang (certainly a tribe) and strives to educate him or herself with the intent of going to college, to follow a dream that is inconsistent with what his or her contemporaries believe is important has, in my opinion, a tougher road to travel than simply heading to the hills to chop wood.

I believe the predominant tribe up here believes that ‘government help’ is a bugaboo that denies a person the opportunity to reach their ‘self-sufficient’ potential. ‘Independent thinking,’ is not the lynchpin for self-sufficiency. Public universities are certainly part of the ‘government structure’, where many receive ‘government help’ to achieve their dreams of self-sufficiency, i.e. to secure a career they love, to build a family, to contribute to society. And, I don’t buy the tribal notion that—in the words I’ve seen used on mountain community social media—public universities are liberal cesspools of indoctrination. I believe a person gets the kind of education they seek, not necessarily what academia seeks to give. At least that was my intent and experience when I matriculated.

Some social programs stifle self-sufficiency. So too, GOP opposition to a livable minimum wage stifles dignity, without which I don’t believe anyone can achieve self-sufficiency.

FredHayek, of course there have always been tribes. It is in the identity of tribes as expressed through social media that interests me. Folks are tribal for any number of reasons. Jim Jones of Jonestown fame was the leader of his tribe. History is replete with intellectual and emotional tribal allegiances, some that embraced nationalism, some that embraced religion, some that embraced communism, some that embraced racism, some that embraced democracy. What interests me the most, however, is when tribal allegiances become more identifiable with cult behavior where the binding cement of a tribe is more attuned to a personality rather than whatever moral or ethical or humanitarian or individualistic ideology that might have been the foundation of that tribe in the first place. That for me is the rub; the reason Mountain Community social media is so fascinating.

the statement in bold.......I would call that drive, to be driven to achieve a goal which would alter your circumstances......but I do not have a psych degree.

GeorgeM, your initial post sounds like an accusation. Hardly a good opening for discussion free of tribal bias, don't you think?
But, maybe, I failed to understand that only "Trumpers" are tribalistic. My bad.

GeorgeM wrote: Ever since I moved up the mountain from Denver over four years ago, I’ve been fascinated with the back-and-forth on social media sites—primarily Facebook. And that fascination intensified when Donald Trump entered the scene or, to be more precise, consumed the scene by capturing the interest and eventually the passions of a great many folks up here.

Firstly, my situation: Park County, four bedroom home on ten acres, well water, septic, 8800 feet high, ponderosa pine, Douglas fir, aspens, critters who come and go across the property with sublime temerity; undergraduate degree in history, minored in psychology and English, the psychology courses mainly focusing on comparative, and abnormal.

Okay. I’ve been reading a great deal about tribalism. The latest from The New Yorker, by George Packer, October 12, 2018:

“We live in a time of tribes. Not of ideologies, parties, groups, or beliefs—these don’t convey the same impregnability of political fortifications, or the yawning chasms between them. American politics today requires a word as primal as ‘tribe’ to get at the blind allegiances and huge passions of partisan affiliation. Tribes demand loyalty, and in return they confer the security of belonging. They’re badges of identity, not of thought. In a way, they make thinking unnecessary, because they do it for you, and may punish you if you try to do it for yourself. To get along without a tribe makes you a fool. To give an inch to the other tribe makes you a sucker.
“I’m using ‘tribalism’ to refer to what George Orwell, in an essay he wrote at the end of the Second World War, meant by ‘nationalism’: “…the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests. . . . The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.” ‘Our tribes are competing for power over the state, the media, public opinion, the verbal battleground. When politics becomes a perpetual tribal war, ends justify almost any means and individuals are absolved from the constraints of normal decency. People who would never tolerate cruelty or lying or even ordinary impoliteness in their children cheer every excess of their leaders, none more so than President Trump’s.”

The anonymity of social media enforces a no holds barred denigration of niceties that would otherwise be expected if folks were speaking over a dinner table, sipping beer, with Waylon and Willie in the background, admonishing mamas to be careful how their babies grow up. And, that anonymity provides an opportunity for folks up here to reveal not only their aggressive intolerance for differing opinions, but also their blatant devotion to the mountain tribe, a decidedly red-tinged nationalism that harkens back to a laisse faire America where Manifest Destiny became the code word for a conquering greed that has yet to be satisfied.

Then comes those not part of the predominant tribe who, at times, are equally comfortable abusing their anonymity to excoriate the tribe with righteous certainty. (I admit I have done this myself.) What I’ve noticed, though, is more often than not non-tribal comments are assumed by the tribe to be condescending, loaded with the vitriol of ‘libtard’ learning from the dismal swamps of higher learning indoctrination morasses—‘fake news’ of the most despicable kind.

Then there are the memes. I will admit I didn’t know the pervasiveness of memes on social media until I started watching mountain community social media sites. While some are incisive social commentary, most are silly-assed tripe that expose the notion that some believe the sound bite is equivalent to “…the whole gamut of culture from Plato to Goethe.”

What I learned from coursework in comparative psychology is that it is the study of critter behavior to glean some insight into the origins of human behavior. And we all know what abnormal psychology entails. I believe both disciplines are useful in trying to come to some logical conclusion about the nature of mountain community social networking. At least I would hope so.

Not sure if my thoughts here will result in any meaningful adult conversation about the subject matter, but one does hope for such a thing. And, maybe the only conclusion is that mountain community social networking is simply a microcosm of the whole, a snippet of what's going on everywhere, mountains or not.

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Arlen.....I believe this was the REAL question (bolded).......from my perspective, the answer is yes,,,,"just a snippet of what is going on everywhere" but the mountain is a relativley small sampling compared to thr whole of Facebook. jmo

Excellent point, Arlen. Care to expand on that?

Tribalism is now cultism? Maybe I am just a little more optimistic about people than others. For example, the Syrian pullout. Some Trump people support it, some don't. And the Left? Some support it, but others reject it. We were projected to spend 15 billion there next year, helping Kurds go after ISIS. Personally I am still debating and gathering information before I decide where I stand on the issue. Hardly a cult follower of President Trump, even though I tend to skew as a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I like the idea of saving billions on endless wars overseas, but sometimes they are necessary.

Tribalism is not cultism. You can be a part of a tribe without being in a cult; indeed all of us are a part of some tribe or another. On the other hand, I find it difficult to imagine being a part of a cult without being a part of that cult's tribe. Maybe it is just a failure of my imagination. Part of my definition of a cult would that the members of that cult are slavishly devoted to the memes of the cult and are unwilling. even unable, to hold in mind any concepts which run counter to the prevailing "theology" of the cult.

In this sense some of the tribes we see on social media extend more towards cults. They also react like cults especially with the vitriolic rejection of opposing viewpoints. It is clear that many have become more entrenched in their belief systems as polarization increases and civility decreases.

A TRUE cult would be Rev, Jones (koolaide and mass mindless suicide) or Rev. Moon back in 60 or 70 or Karisch most recently. It is called brainwashing and those who are searching to fill a void are the MOST at risk.......they NEED a messiah to guide them because independent thought
is NOT within their mindset. So I view tribe/cult as separate jmo

I don't see them as separate; I see them as a continuum. Inherent in any cult is the basic human need to belong to a tribe, but it becomes warped into a more extreme, destructive drive. JMO

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink

Let's make it interesting......how does fit within the question.....